I want to go faster.

Moderators: robnewyork, bassiclyLouDog, gameboy

User avatar
By Kahlis
#6887
I just scored a Pocket Rocket for $60! Untested and sold "as is" but it has everything but the batteries. No problem because I was planning on going LiPo anyway. Quick question for you guys.

What is the biggest motor I can stuff in it? I know I can over-volt what it already has, but the bigger the better. 8-)

I'm thinking two 6S lipos for 50v total. Chris from TNC is helping me already with the Razor Quad project so I might use the reocmmended 48v controller.

http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=376

Can the 24v factory motor handle 50v? I haven't seen the rocket up close so I'm not sure how much room is available for a larger motor. Based on the photos, I'm not sure there is much more room. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Last edited by Kahlis on Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.


By robnewyork
#6890
For a short while it can..basicloudoug has done 72 volts on some projects.. with a 30 amp controller your max would be about 500 watt motor..you could run 1000 but not to its max potential..id do a 750 36 v overvolted to 50 v...thats a powerful pocket rocket and with lipos should have good run time..top speed would be roughly 19 mph but it should get there really fast ( assuming stock gears)
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6892
Cool, thanks for the reply.

I think the biggest problem is space. Based on the photos, I'm not incredibly sure I have much extra space. The motor sits in between the frame rails. Any idea how much larger the 36v 750w motor is over the 24v 250w? My knowledge is mostly in the RC realm but I'm getting there!

The packs I have planned are 6S (25.2v @ 4.2v/cell) 8000mah (8ah) 25/30c. In series, as you know, I'd maintain the 8ah but double the voltage to 50.4v. 8ah is good for long run times and the 30c punch will surely get it scooting along!
By robnewyork
#6894
Sounds like a solid plan..the 750s arent big..lookup product's specs..its amazing how small the stronger motors Are given the power difference.. you could probably fit 1000 w with some motivation..with lipo you will run forever..no concern there..
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6901
Thanks Rob, I'm pretty stoked myself.

I'll have to hold off for a bit, I don't even have the rocket yet. The seller should be mailing it today and hopefully I'll get it by the weekend. Once in hand, I'll make some measurements and go from there. I still need to get a second 6S 8ah pack, but I get them from hobbyking and their prices can't be beat.
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6902
I found MY1020-B, a 36v 750w motor. Its just 2 1/4" longer than the stock 24v. That may not work afterall. :( Although, I am getting ahead of myself. I still don't hve the rocket to measure!
By robnewyork
#6903
Yes..may take some filing or grinding but man will it be fast..i may pull the trigger on a 938 watt motor i found on ebay for 40 bux shipped.i will need to add the sprocket custom but thats better than 100 bux and same mounting holes as my drifter has stock...all this crap adds up lol
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6907
Another issue I'll have to deal w/ is the mounting bracket. The hole spaces aren't the same. That'll take some fabbin' when the time comes.
robnewyork wrote:Yes..may take some filing or grinding but man will it be fast..i may pull the trigger on a 938 watt motor i found on ebay for 40 bux shipped.i will need to add the sprocket custom but thats better than 100 bux and same mounting holes as my drifter has stock...all this crap adds up lol
What is it going in? 938w is pretty stout!
By robnewyork
#6909
My razor ground force..i stripped the ground force electronics to make the dual motor dual controller drifter as seen in my photobucket..hence i have a rustless perfect braking ground force collecting dust..ill still need to get a controller and batteries for that project...but saving 60 on a motor is a good start..if i run it at 48 v 50 amp controller i should have 1876 watts of power..the motor may fry but ill only do short runs...thats violent power on that small kart.36 volt may be more practical for run times and durability..we will see.plus i need to machine a sprocket to fit the key way driveshaft thats on the motor.so inevitably it would turn into a massive project..accumulation of these small controllers and motors and stacking them as i have is actually way cheaper if i picked up 2 more junkers off craigslist..but making smace for one bigger motor is easier than stacking four and planning the chains route lol..we will see.unless i scrap my current project the ole lady may get pissed if ihave 2 karts sitting there..so im torn
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6910
I love your note about the "old lady". lol I got one too,... once upon a time she complained about my '81 Z28. Then she complained about my RC addiction, now it's over the ride-ons. Ultimately they are the kids' but she knows better. Haha.

Sounds like you'll have quite the Big-Boy Toy when finished. Defintely go w/ a larger motor (or two) than that stacking crap. My head hurt the second I read that. What is your photobucket link? Any videos of trial and error so far?
By robnewyork
#6911
Yes yes..go to robnewyork. I landed the 936 watt for 40.50 shipped! Im excited..its the dual motor drifter frequently posted here..stacking the motors and elongated chain is fun and challenging but an ezgo golf motor is 12 250watt motors..try stacking 12 and getting the chain aligned lol..i have a lathe so i can machine the sprocket to fit the odd axle..60 bux saved is 60 bux for a controller..my photobucket is public..the first 20 pics explain it all.
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6915
Nice work! Bet you are itching to get it done. I just got confirmation my Pocket Rocket (lets start calling it PR for short) will be here on Friday!! Woohoo.

I contacted an RC buddy of mine that makes custom billet battery trays for lipo packs. These are thick enough for drilling and mounting to near anything and come complete with velcro straps. If my mind's eye is correct, you'd think it was a factory job once installed.
By robnewyork
#6918
With lipos space wont be a factor..you could have a stock looking bike with massive acceleration..im having an issue myself..my motor is 39 amp 24 volt..almost no 36 v controllers run over 30 amp...if i go to 48 volt its fine but i think id fry the motor fast..when u get into non scooter mooters things get complex..contacted monster scooter parts about their 36v 1200 watt controller.i know it should put out 40 amps but im betting it wont..usually the higher voltage big motors require less amps, minebeing 24 volt requires alot..worst case ill run 48 v 50 amp controller and do 30 mph on myground force till it blows lol
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6920
BLOW IT UP! Sorta the theory behind my RC forum, Beatyourtruck.com. Build it. Break it. Start over.
By robnewyork
#6925
Yea at 48 volts its essentially 1872 watts!! I should be able to do 30 no issue with right gearing( ive done the math for 36 volt not 48 yet).im forcing myself to sell stuff as i buy parts for the dragster as ill call it..i have wayy to much money in these toys and i havent even switched to lipos lol.thats when money burns fast so being from thr rc world is always an advantage for newbs on here.not to many other hobbies require lipos and bunches of them.the downside being i have yet to see an rc brushless motor do well on a scooter..seems like the programming is different and the motors will back out when the max torque is needed..i think it has to do with the brushless hobby controllers moreso than the motor itself.
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6927
Castle Creations sells a MONSTER brushless motor made for 1/5 scale applications.

We're talking about a motor, about the size of a soda can, that is rated at 10hp. A pair of these, configured right, will push near 70v and would turn any ride on into a rocket.

Image

http://www.castlecreations.com/products/2028_motor.html
By robnewyork
#6928
You would need an appropriate controller and to gear these motors pretty heavy as they are set up for higher rpm...i landed a mobility scooter tonight for 40 bux, im gonna add new batteries i have sitting around and flip it.. go to my photobucket to see it.. ill be driving it a bit to test it this weekend lmao..
We had a guy mount a 5000 watt brushless motor to a razor e 300..he planned on doin 50 but the controller never allowed the motor to pussh that torque..had he switched to an ebike controller properly rated it may have happened
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6935
Oh, guess you're right. Those brushless spin at such crazy high RPM, you'd almost need a starter motor just to get it spooled so to speak.
By robnewyork
#6938
Yes..if i had that soda can brushless id gear it 20 to 1 and still have a rocketship..finding a suitable controller would be the other challenge bc even those.little ones draw 150 amps in some cases..they do have ridic hp ratings..
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6958
Holy crap is this thing small! Compared to their quad, this thing is itty bitty!
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6996
So I bought another rocket,... now I have two. haha. The one I first bought had far more areas to fix than I anticipated so I figured the first one will be for parts and I'll hop up the new one. But I do have a plan that I think is pretty cool - I'm gonna stretch it!

My neighbor is a rather good weld mechanic and he and I got to talk over some beers last night. Tonight he's going to cut and extend the chassis to about a foot, maybe 1.5 and see how it looks. If it turns out like crap, at least I have another chassis. Has anyone else done this? (I know the question is rhetorical since there are only two members on this entire forum, me and Rob from New York. Where is everyone???)
By robnewyork
#6997
Lol gameboy and loudoug log in often..the rest are all new with questions and no answers..stretch it man!!! People have stretched scooters , the razor karts.. basically everything..id stretch it the full 1.5 feet. Make it comfy plus the ride at 20 mph will be smoother..did u see my new motor? Its an american made leeson.40 lbs lmao with internal fan and pressurized bearings..im gonna run it at 48 volts or 1872 amps ! I have the gears in the mail setup to do 30 mph according to math..for now till i get controller im running it on puny 29 amp 500 watt controller, not sure it will move me lol with that little amperage considering the motor is 39 amps.ill know this weekend
User avatar
By Kahlis
#6999
1.21 gigawatts! darn dude, you'd find yourself back in time. Haha!

Glad to know there are other people around,... I see their names on other topics but none seem interested in mine. :( jk.

I'll have to check your photobucket site, that motor sounds beast. You'll surely fly once you get a beefier controller.

Based on space restrictions, I decided on a 36v 350w motor (MY1016). It has the same mount position as the factory 24v and only a tad longer. I'll have to mod the frame some I fear, but its doable. The 36v 750w I was eyeing up is just too long. 6.5" tip to tail is just too long. I'd have to drop the motor down past the frame and risk it being too low and possibly snaggin' a curb, etc.
By robnewyork
#7000
Hmm.im not sure the 350 watt will be noticeable difference..id rather raise or lower the 750.. ask the welder ill bet he has a simple solution to fit the 750 !! The 350 watt overvolted on a controller with big amperage would be an improvement..but so would the stock motor..matter of fact the stock motor on a 48v controller would be faster top end than the 36 v 350 w motor
By robnewyork
#7001
But As far as toque gain theres almost a negligible difference even upgrading to 500 watts..u need to share a pic of the configuration..that rear frame blocking the rear of the 750 from fitting could be cut and rewelded around the new motor..i just dont wsnt to see u blow 46 bux on a 350 watt for no real acceleration gain..even when i doubled motors to 2 250 watt motors it wasnt mind bending just good acceleration like it should have been stock...
Option 2.. get a larger rear sprocket like 76 tooth ( i have 1 ) and mount to rear wheel for additional torque with stock motor..get 48 v controller and throttle for 50 bux ill send the links..this controller has almost all same connections as stock controller as ill be using it on my ground force.. pretty simple from tncscooters and 38 bux 50 amp..get charger 48 v... run the new 48 volt 50 amp system to ur stock 250 watt for a total 5200 rpm 500 watt.. this will offset the heavier gearing thus giving u better torque off the line and a top speed about 20 mph... till the motor blows then drop in the 750 or whatever u want
By robnewyork
#7002
One of my quotes "" i dont even know why they bother making anything below 750 watt" ...the fact is without spending 600 retail theres nothing that comes stock with good acceleration..the 1000 watt stand ups start @ )599 bux and thats a lot of custom money for us modders just to gradually get to 22 mph .i know its all built for kids but my girlfriends nephew is 48 lbs and the drifter stock wouldnt climb the driveway with him on it..as i said, nothing below 750 watt should even be considered...and even then id overvolt to 48 for more top end.. the motor i got is supposed to be bulletproof and im gonna find out (-;
User avatar
By Kahlis
#7003
Thanks for the news, unfortunately the motor is already ordered and on it's way. I'll snap some photos tonight to give you a better idea on the space restraint - there really isn't much room at all. Keep in mind though, this is going to be ran by two lipo "bricks" at 50.4v. Based on my experince with lipo discharge, they litterally DUMP power while maintain their amperage rate (8ah in this case). I'm curious to see how they'll push this little bike around. Perhaps what you say is true, your experience out weighs mine (for now, lol) so we'll see.
User avatar
By Kahlis
#7010
The Razor 36v controller as found on the MX500/650. A combo deal with their six-pin throttle assembly is less than $50 buy it now. The throttle will fit on the rocket's handlebars.
By robnewyork
#7012
Ok and the 350 watt is rated at 24 volt? U will be doin roughly 18 in that case..some torque gain as well..this stuff is like crack..when ur done u will be planning a 60 volt 1000 watt (-;
User avatar
By Kahlis
#7014
No, it's the 36v 350w motor. Nearly the same size as the 24v version. Trust me, I'm already spun up on some good crack. I just made the mistake of buying such a small frame, otherwise, I would be running a 1kw system!!

What calculation are you using to get your figures?
By robnewyork
#7015
At 24 v lets say the motor spins 2400 rpm..now lets divide.. thats 100 rpm per volt..100 times 36 is 3600 at 36 volts.. in other words ur stock 250 watt motor will be wayy faster top speed than ur new 350 watt
By robnewyork
#7016
So with the stock 24 v motor overvolted to 36 volts it would spin 1.5 times faster thus giving u 50 percent greater top speed.12× 1.5 = 18 theoretical top speed
By robnewyork
#7017
With the 36 volt motor at 36 volts u wil have better torque...but honestly the stock motor will go 6 mph faster than ur new motor..and the torque difference again will be negligence without gear changing..mount both 24 v motors to bike..run both on 36 volt controller.. u will have an overvolted 500 watts essentially giving u 750 watts of power and good acceleration to 18 and all it will cost is a master link and chain breaker and time from welder budddy..
User avatar
By Kahlis
#7021
robnewyork wrote:With the 36 volt motor at 36 volts u wil have better torque...but honestly the stock motor will go 6 mph faster than ur new motor..and the torque difference again will be negligence without gear changing..mount both 24 v motors to bike..run both on 36 volt controller.. u will have an overvolted 500 watts essentially giving u 750 watts of power and good acceleration to 18 and all it will cost is a master link and chain breaker and time from welder budddy..
DUAL MOTORS!!!! Yeeeeehaaaaa! Now you got me thinking!

So since both would be powered by the same controller, the voltage would stay the same (50.4v from the lipos) but the wattage would double? That's just sick.
User avatar
By Kahlis
#7022
My neighbor is nearing the completion of the stretch but the bottom brace needs to be heated and bent to match (top to bottom).
By robnewyork
#7023
Well only 36 will cross over the controller..and yes dual motors means double power in wattage..you need to adjust closer to 36 volt battery pack..otherwise u will have no low voltage shut off and may fry the lipo batteries..the controllerhas no idea. It just thinks its feeding a 500 watt 28 amp motor..
By robnewyork
#7024
If you have a seperate charger for the 50 v pack then it may work...but if this is seperate packs make it close to 36 ..lets keep it simple.
By robnewyork
#7025
U wont be able to charge through the stock charger or controller to 50 volts..only 36..we already have enough tecnical issues to overcome at this point lol
By robnewyork
#7026
The controller may pass 50 volts over to the motor..i know lou had passed 60 over the 36 v controller..issue is how will u monitor ur low voltage , and how will u charge the lipo pack? If u have a way to charge it then simply disconnect and hook to charger...as for run time id get a 3 dollar 3-100v digital meter off ebay and wire it into the pack..or use the rule of thumb..if it slows down at all, get off immediately and charge it..i know lipos are more durable and i dont know all the rules but these steps will still improve the life expectancy
User avatar
By Kahlis
#7029
robnewyork wrote:The controller may pass 50 volts over to the motor..i know lou had passed 60 over the 36 v controller..issue is how will u monitor ur low voltage , and how will u charge the lipo pack? If u have a way to charge it then simply disconnect and hook to charger...as for run time id get a 3 dollar 3-100v digital meter off ebay and wire it into the pack..or use the rule of thumb..if it slows down at all, get off immediately and charge it..i know lipos are more durable and i dont know all the rules but these steps will still improve the life expectancy
I appreciate your thoughts, but running lipos wasn't something that just came to mind one day and I assumed it would work. I've been a RC hobbyist for over 15 years and running lipos at least half that. My charge station is capable of 350w charge rate with a 500w power supply. Trust me, I have lipos covered.
User avatar
By Kahlis
#7030
robnewyork wrote:U gota share strech pics.. i too wish more people would log in often.my airgun forums are abuzz daily
No doubt! I'm hoping to finish most if not all of the fabrication tonight and possibly get to welding. To get the stretch I'm looking for we need to heat and bend the frame (at the cut points) for a smooth transition. Otherwise, I'll end up with a front end that is much higher than it should be and I'd risk scraping the battery tray a/o motor.
By robnewyork
#7031
Ok batteries covered, charging covered, controller covered , motor options covered, strech limo razor pr200 covered.. (-;
And ideas how to mount both motors, i have yet to see a diagram online but there has to be room.and 25 mph with dual motors will be pretty dam fast!! And with lipo ur range will be insane..i know how 2 250s feel and it pulled me ( 170 ) up driveways.not breakneck speed but ur setup will have double the top speed so different animal.
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