I want to go faster.

Moderators: robnewyork, bassiclyLouDog, gameboy

#8335
Hello Everyone, I have a question that you may be able to answer for me. I have a Ezip 750 scooter running two SLA 24v 12Ah battery packs in parallel. With 24Ah SLA's, the range isn't bad, yet the speed is the same @ 12-13 mph :(

I am looking a modding it and am considering changing the motor to a 48v 1000 watt, go to a 48v controller, and change the throttle to a 48v. The cost for all of this from TNC seems to be @ $200 plus shipping.

Now for batteries, when the SLA's die, I see that Lipos from Hobbyking is the way to go, and I can get 48v 10Ah Lipo's for @ $200, plus a Lipo charger for @ $100. I see that 10Ah is not a lot, but I can always double that at future date.

The question is what speed increase would I see from going to a 48v 1000w motor and 48v controller, would I double it? EX: currently get 12-13mph, would I go to @ 22-25mph?

Hopefully someone here has some experience and numbers to share with me… IAN…
Attachments
Ezip750-24v24Ah.jpg
Ezip 750 with two 24v 12aH SLA batteries
Ezip750-24v24Ah.jpg (153.24 KiB) Viewed 9064 times


#8336
Running a 48 v motor at 48 v will still get you to 13 mph...i ran my stock 24 v motor at 48 v and got a solid 28 mph , perhaps 30 on slight downhills.but i blew the motor in a week..maybe you should get a 36 v 1000 w motor along with a 48 v controller , lb37 a good idea..this will give good tirque and be more reliable..top speed will he about 20 mph with good acceleration.. then u will need a throttle , charger in 48 v , and 4 batteries..the cheapest batteries are on ebay or Amazon, id go no lower than 10 ah for any range with this combo...

Keep in mind the voltage on the motor is designed to run that motor at a set rpm, so adding volting will oncreasse rpm directly proportional..ex . a36 volt motor at 48 v will spin 1.33 times faster than stock ..a 48 v motor given 48 v wil simply spin at the factory rpm..a 24 v motor like mine will spin at 2 times the stock speed when run at 48 v. But will fry the motor in most cases like i did...do some more reading before u bust out the amex.
#8337
Anothet factor , the setup u have now is amazing for range , running alot faster at higher amps and over volting a bigger motor will cut ur range so fast it will be like a magic show , id get another 4 12 ah so you have 48v at 24 ah and ud still have respectable range with a 1000 watts and more amperage ( 50 as opposed to 30 +a motor that draws more nominal)
#8338
RobNewYork, thanks a million for the replies… :)

So, running a 48v motor at 48v doesn't increase speed… :(

Maybe I should run 36v through my current 24v motor and just change to a 36v controller. What speed would that give me? 12-13mph would increase to @ 18-19mph?

This way all I need is a 36v controller, and I could theoretically add another 24v 12Ah SLA pack and wire this all up into two packs of 36v 24Ah's. Mind you this would add another 20 lbs to the scooter… Me weighing in at 235, plus 60 lbs of SLA's, plus baskets, tool kits etc…. I would be pushing close to 300 lbs on a 260 lb rated scooter :(

Hmmmm, this scooter thing is addictive and so is speed… I wish the Amex was free, 36v 24Ah lipo's would really help for the weight and power …. lollll
#8339
Lipo is mecca yes ..lol....and yes a 36 v controller would have u doin 20 mph..dont forget additional throttle , batterys and 36v charger...range would still be good , and a higher amp controller would give u some torque gain..i think they make a super cheap one w 40 amps that still have low voltage cutoff and the stuff we take for granted w stock scoots
Last edited by robnewyork on Tue May 07, 2013 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#8340
You have to look at the speed of the motor. Pretty sure the "standard" is about 2500-2700 RPM. If you look at the standard motors that are supposed to be for specific models (often several) you can see what I mean. Without gear changes the RPM are what determine the speed (along with weight, hills and all that). So if you get a 48V motor that is running at that same RPM you will be staying at the same speed.

I'm not an expert but as I understand it there are a couple of constants; RPM/volt and torque/amp. So to get more you have to have a motor that gives more for the same volts and/or amps or increase the volts and/or amps. If you google the part numbers for these motors and then look at the specs from the Factory Reps/Exporters in China you will likely get even more confused. It seems that the same motor is meant to run at different voltages and they also use the same model or "style" number for several different capacity motors.
#8341
meanunclebob wrote:You have to look at the speed of the motor. Pretty sure the "standard" is about 2500-2700 RPM. If you look at the standard motors that are supposed to be for specific models (often several) you can see what I mean. Without gear changes the RPM are what determine the speed (along with weight, hills and all that). So if you get a 48V motor that is running at that same RPM you will be staying at the same speed.

I'm not an expert but as I understand it there are a couple of constants; RPM/volt and torque/amp. So to get more you have to have a motor that gives more for the same volts and/or amps or increase the volts and/or amps. If you google the part numbers for these motors and then look at the specs from the Factory Reps/Exporters in China you will likely get even more confused. It seems that the same motor is meant to run at different voltages and they also use the same model or "style" number for several different capacity motors.
So by changing to a 36v controller and 36v batteries, the 2600 rpm on my 24v motor will increase to @3900 ( a 50% increase) therefore speed should go from 12-13 mph to @ 18-19 mph. Is this correct?

Now if the weight will be @ 300 lbs on a 260 lb rated scooter with the 36v 24Ah SLA's, I guess a temp probe on the motor would be a good investment to monitor the heat? How high can i go temp wise on the motor before causing any damage?

IAN.
#8343
robnewyork wrote:Lipo is mecca yes ..lol….and yes a 36 v controller would have u doin 20 mph..dont forget additional throttle , batterys and 36v charger...range would still be good , and a higher amp controller would give u some torque gain..i think they make a super cheap one w 40 amps that still have low voltage cutoff and the stuff we take for granted w stock scoots
I guess I have to consider the reliability, changing the controller to 36v, 36v throttle (or keep my current since I have a Watt Meter) and modifying my SLA batteries.

I guess my motor would go from 2600 rpm to 3900 rpm, so almost 19 mph?

How much weight can a 260 lb scooter take? Is 300 lbs too much, me plus SLA's etc….
#8344
Yep, that's pretty much it. I overvolted mine to 36V and went from about 14mph max to about 20mph max. My speeds are approximate of course since I'm not all that confident of my wheel measuring. I think that eventually even someone heavier will get to the same max speed as someone lighter if on level ground and enough distance--the max being reduced by weight is a matter of inertia and not enough distance to overcome it. I am pretty comfortable with the max I have now but would like to have more to use for short periods. I've gone down some hills that kicked me up above 20 and the crud at the roadside was scary. A long but clean road I went down the other day was more comfortable though.

I've only been checking the temperature by hand and occasionally so don't know for sure but mine doesn't seem to be getting all that that hot.
#8347
meanunclebob wrote:Yep, that's pretty much it. I overvolted mine to 36V and went from about 14mph max to about 20mph max. My speeds are approximate of course since I'm not all that confident of my wheel measuring. I think that eventually even someone heavier will get to the same max speed as someone lighter if on level ground and enough distance--the max being reduced by weight is a matter of inertia and not enough distance to overcome it. I am pretty comfortable with the max I have now but would like to have more to use for short periods. I've gone down some hills that kicked me up above 20 and the crud at the roadside was scary. A long but clean road I went down the other day was more comfortable though.

I've only been checking the temperature by hand and occasionally so don't know for sure but mine doesn't seem to be getting all that that hot.
Thanks for the reply :)
I should try to run 36v temporarily now to see what happens.
I also read somewhere that the "newer" Currie scooter controllers don't allow voltage above 29v…
#8352
robnewyork wrote:I was gonna say run the stock system at 36 buts thats an interesting rumor
RobNewYork, thanks so much for pushing me to verify this "rumor" about the controller only 29v and below. I have a spare small 12v 7Ah SLA so I brought out the alligator jumpers and wired up a 36v battery pack.

And voila, everything works and spins, yet since it was a temp job, I didn't actually take the scooter out for a real test drive.

I figure if it works just spinning with no load, it "should" work while out riding and pulling peak amp loads.

Now comes the question about reliability, longevity, speed, and heat while climbing normal local hills etc… ?

Just while testing it, I can see that the motor/rear wheel is really spinning much faster. I presume it is spinning 1.5 times faster than stock (2600 rpm)

Now, if I wired this up permanently, what can I do to reduce any damage… EX: just open her up on flat roads, take the take-offs at a much smoother pace, and reduce the full throttle hill climbing in order to reduce the amperage under load?
#8354
Yep..ud need to feather it and montor temperatures...also a way to monitor the voltage so u dont kill the batyerys.. a chinese volt gauge from ebay and some test runs to see how hot the motor gets and if it only gets luke warm u may have a winner.no more mods needed 20 mph and dependable..maybe theres a 36volt temp gauge u can put on ur dash along with the volt meter , id stop riding when the battery pack hits a rested 33.
#8357
i just did some real road tests. The top speed is 17.6 mph with a fairly good head wind/on a rough road. i am sure that it will do 19-20mph on a flat smooth road with no wind.. :) Not bad considering I weigh 235lbs… I guess Weight Watchers could get me down to 150 lbs, than it would fly on 36v …lollll

I will try it some more and measure the motor temps with a IR Temp gun

Going to 36v will require me to get a 36v charger and change my battery setup, but it may all be worth it. Hmmmm, maybe we can go to 48volts…?

A 48v setup would be really simple since I already have two 24v 12Ah packs in parallel on the scooter, and already have two 24v chargers. Can my setup handle 48volts? What would be the danger with a 48v setup?
Attachments
Ezip750-24v24Ah.jpg
Just rewire the two parallel packs into series for 48v? :)
Ezip750-24v24Ah.jpg (67.17 KiB) Viewed 9037 times
#8359
I already fried my first s500 motor on 48, just got another motor and ill be frying that soon too..ultimately i need a 1000w 36v motor for my scooter.you should try to keep the 24 ah setup bc the motor will be drawing more current now than before , so u wanna keep a decent range
#8361
robnewyork wrote:I already fried my first s500 motor on 48, just got another motor and ill be frying that soon too..ultimately i need a 1000w 36v motor for my scooter.you should try to keep the 24 ah setup bc the motor will be drawing more current now than before , so u wanna keep a decent range
So in theory, I should get a 36v motor, 48v controller, and run my two battery packs (48v in series) through it? What would the speed be for this setup?
#8366
robnewyork wrote:No…thats an overvolt factor of 1.33 , right now u have 1.5 overvolt..so ud be decreasing top speed by .17 times 13.maybe 15-16mph as opposed to 17.6
Ok, so I'm confused now. If I was to put a 48v motor on it, and used my current two current 24v parallels battery (but wire them in series to give me 48v) what would this do for me? Would I get more torque, faster speed, …?

IAN :)
#8367
Remember the constants I wrote about earlier. If you did it with your current motor that runs at about 2600 RPM at 24V you would be pretty much doubling the speed because you would be doubling the volts. If you overvolted a 36V motor that normally runs at about 2600 RPM to 48V you would running it at one and a third speed. Don't forget that usually the motors are made to run at about 2600 RPM at their "normal" voltage.

Oh yeah, If you put a 48V motor on it it would run at whatever RPM it is made to run at.
#8369
Pretty simple , if you have 3 motors rated at 24v, 36, and 48 that all run at 2600 rpm , running each one overvolted would go as such.

24 v motor on 36v controller , 3900 rpm
24v motor on 48v controller = 5200 rpm
36 v motor on 48 v controller 3467 rpm
48v on 48 v controller - 2600 rpm as the factory designed it for
48 volt on 60 volt controller 3250 rpm
As u can see without killing motors, the best combo is 24 v on 36 v controller , 36 v on 60 v controller also very fast
#8370
imorton wrote:
robnewyork wrote:No…thats an overvolt factor of 1.33 , right now u have 1.5 overvolt..so ud be decreasing top speed by .17 times 13.maybe 15-16mph as opposed to 17.6
Ok, so I'm confused now. If I was to put a 48v motor on it, and used my current two current 24v parallels battery (but wire them in series to give me 48v) what would this do for me? Would I get more torque, faster speed, …?

IAN :)
It would simply make ur scooter run at 13 mph like it does now. (-'
#8374
So a 48v motor on my scooter will still run at 13 mph even if it is running 48v… hmmmm

So if I want a reliable scooter, keep the 24v motor with 24v 24Ah

OR

I can take my 24v motor and push 36v thru it, and see what happens to the controller & motor (less reliable)

I can take a 36v motor and a 36v controller (or a 48v controller) and push 48v thru it, and see what happens to the controller & motor (may be a bit more reliable)

What would be the best way for me to increase my speed to 20-22 mph reliably?
#8375
Ur motor may be dependable on 36 v and ur controller probably is too , the initial test was that first ride.and if the controller nor the motor got excessively hot u may be on to something , then u will need 2 more 12 ah batterys for 36 v 24 ah..for 22 mph at ur weight u will need a few factors , first being torque which means more amps and the right combo of controller and motor.( this all being said while my favored combo is the one u just tested for 17 mph , also the cheapest )
Too many amps may be bad for reliability , so ill vote for the lb37 controller at 48v 50 amps..then you need a motor , the 3 bolt 36 volt 1000 watt of tnc is 105 bux , this will provide adequate torque even with our gear reduction.next is to swap the 11 tooth sprocket on the motor with a 15 tooth , 3 minutes work 10 dollars.when thats all wired and bolted up u will have a fairly reliable 22-23.5 mph scooter that will have enough torque for the weight and not draw huge amperage and kill battery life bc it will be limited to ~50 as per the controller.
Ur cost to do 17.6 - 40 bux for 2 more batts.
Doin 22-23 reliably , 105+37+10 plis all wires and labor and connectors.
#8376
I dont ride far and will say doin 30 on this chassis is smooth as glass, i was only scared bc of no brakes.hopefully ill make a 30mph video this weeekend..just got new motor in..it was cheap so ill fry this one too , running the stock scooter on a yk42-r with 100 amps double volted brought the scooter to life in a hurry..it went from about 13 also right to 30, to be exact i had 54 volts strapped to it , and could cook eggs on the motor after a 2 block trip lol.but were i loooking to make long trips id do the 36 v modd with a volt meter , or id run it stock, or id run the 1000 watt on the lb37 with no gear ratio change and cruise at 18mph or so..
Another option is just replace the controller w 36 v controller , but ur only gain will be a low voltage cutoff and thas not
#8378
robnewyork wrote:Ur motor may be dependable on 36 v and ur controller probably is too , the initial test was that first ride.and if the controller nor the motor got excessively hot u may be on to something , then u will need 2 more 12 ah batterys for 36 v 24 ah..for 22 mph at ur weight u will need a few factors , first being torque which means more amps and the right combo of controller and motor.( this all being said while my favored combo is the one u just tested for 17 mph , also the cheapest )
Too many amps may be bad for reliability , so ill vote for the lb37 controller at 48v 50 amps..then you need a motor , the 3 bolt 36 volt 1000 watt of tnc is 105 bux , this will provide adequate torque even with our gear reduction.next is to swap the 11 tooth sprocket on the motor with a 15 tooth , 3 minutes work 10 dollars.when thats all wired and bolted up u will have a fairly reliable 22-23.5 mph scooter that will have enough torque for the weight and not draw huge amperage and kill battery life bc it will be limited to ~50 as per the controller.
Ur cost to do 17.6 - 40 bux for 2 more batts.
Doin 22-23 reliably , 105+37+10 plis all wires and labor and connectors.
I noticed yesterday when I did the 36v test ride, my current 24v 30Amp controller was providing 30 amps and my watt meter show 1035 watts Peak. Why would I want to add a 50 amp controller, wouldn't that cause more heat/damage, but would likely increase the speed. I guess if I change the 11th sprocket to a 15 th, I guess this is where I would have to increase to a 50 amp controller?

PS: 36v 24Ah SLA is really to big or heavy for this scooter, especially when you add my 235 lbs to it… :(
Maybe when I go back to Florida in the winter, I can upgrade to Lipo packs … :)
#8380
I guess right now I have a dependable "slow" scooter, but with 24v 24Ah range. I could add two more SLA's but too heavy (I think).

I could remove one SLA from my 2nd paralleled pack and wire it all up in series to give me a 36v 12Ah pack, but i would gain 6-7 mph, yet lose half my range.

My "Watts Meter" shows that at 24v 24Ah I am using @ 1Ah per mile, or @ 25Wh's per mile. I guess if I went to 36v, would it still require the same Amp & Watt Hour requirements per mile? In other words, would the scooter on 24v 12Ah versus 36v 12Ah drain the batteries similarly ?

Hmmm, maybe Santa can bring me HK Lipo's… 36v 24Ah and a good fast Lipo charger, balancer, cell log, etc… :)
#8383
My setup is temporary and fries motors fast.so u can copy it by buying the yk42-4 onn tnc , then running that to a 24 v motor..
amperage gives u torque and the 1000 watt i suggested requires 36 amps or so to run normal power..so ur 30 amp would run it.
ur wattage numbers are sppt on ,750 times 1.5 = over 1000 watts .
The controller had nothing to do with the gear change , i blended all 3 together for the speed, weight , and motor longevity....

With the 2 exact same battery packs ur motor at 36 volts or overvolted 1.5 would drain about twice as much juice...so it would be like having 12 ah setup on ur stock scooter..battery goes fast when overvolting .
#8384
My final setup will be yk42-4 combined with tnc 1000watt motor, 4 9ah batteries in series for my short trips , and should pull wheelies and top out at 19 mph..current setup does 28-30 gets hot , and doesnt pull wheeliest just good acceleration..bu
#8385
T i need to install the motor i just got on saturday , then perhaps a video of top speed.i made of video of my last ride but motor was 90 percent dead and the scooter was only riding slightly above stock , maybe 16 mph..either way were i traveling more than a few blocks this would not be dependable.
#8388
What I don't understand, the SuperScooterSales machine are doing much better than we are… I know their numbers are a little inflated but i have videos of others that are getting good speeds…

36v 12Ah @ 25mph http://superscootersales.com/?wpsc-prod ... -800-elite

48v 12Ah @ 32mph http://superscootersales.com/?wpsc-prod ... 00-lithium

I did 36v and only got 17-18mph..? :(

Just throwing these out for comparison and to find what we need to do to get reliably in the 20-25 mph range, IAN.
#8390
They just have light gearing on bigg motors , no mystery..i personally prefer to have acceleration and hill climbing torque..you have the same questions on endless sphere which confused me..do you think either A .. we dont know what we speak of, or B , that the science behind electric motors and math varies from forum to forum?
In any even a lightly geared 1000 watt motor at 35 amps run at its
#8393
RobNewYork, you're funny…. :)

I had signed up on a few of the different forums, and quickly found out that eBikeForum is filled with "purists" who don't like sharing experience with "scooters".

EndlessSphere is filled with some very intense and very knowledgeable people who really really know the inner workings of batteries, motors, controllers, and mostly geared towards eBikes. As you know, a wealth of additional info :)

ModifiedElectricScooters is a smaller but really friendly and knowledgeable site with information geared specifically to scooters/karts. I see from the site that you are an active member who is gladly sharing your experience with noobs like me …:)

I now realize that folks are using scooters for various reasons and in totally different terrains. You seem to be in a hilly area with shorter runs. While I live in an area that is flatter yet use min as a means of local transportation.

I agree, there is so many ways to modify a scooter, all depending on our desired outcome and budget :)
#8395
robnewyork wrote:Yep.endless is a bit more serious , and the builds more pricey..i don't have hills but always assume others do so i try to gear them toward torque, no pun..but with minimum torque 30 mph isnt an issue.
I can see that someone really has to decide what they Want or Need, because it can be done. Speed, torque, range, it all depends…

I have had 7-8 motorcycles in my life and love speed, but let's be honest, 30 mph on my eZip 750 with small wheels and only a front brake system consisting of regular bicycle rim/pad braking system…. :(

I think 20-22 mph is plenty, and think the Ezip 750 can handle to stop it with me on it… :)
#8397
Yep..stopping 300 lbs at 30 mph may be harder than moving it.there are rear wheels with the disc brake assemblys , but mounting the caliper is another issue..30 actually rode smooth on mine, but the minute i hot those speeds i got nervous and backed out...ill try again sunday without any distractions wiring sone stuff tommor ajd installing other motor.
#8398
robnewyork wrote:Yep..stopping 300 lbs at 30 mph may be harder than moving it.there are rear wheels with the disc brake assemblys , but mounting the caliper is another issue..30 actually rode smooth on mine, but the minute i hot those speeds i got nervous and backed out...ill try again sunday without any distractions wiring sone stuff tommor ajd installing other motor.
I hear ya, the other day I was going down a hill with the scooter baskets filled with heavy groceries, and I could tell that braking was an issue… :(

I can see that the eZip 1000 with dual suspension and dual disc brakes is better suited to modifying for high speed.

You should keep us posted with the motor mod and post pics, you know we are all "voyeurs".. loll
#8400
robnewyork wrote:when I make some progresss tommor I may post a pic or vid, my scooter was submerged in sandy so im gradually cleaning it up, not a resto, im more into speed than looks
Cool, and if you have a chance, you should look at my "new post" about my upgrade options for my scooter. Maybe you can help me fill in the blanks….?

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1357&p=8396#p8396

IAN…
#11369
Was that new or used? I think that unless he's really big there should be no problem getting a decent five miles out of them. I'll look again to see which battery set that uses. If he can't charge at work in the scooter perhaps they would let him charge out of the scooter. Pretty sure there's an adapter for that. If not you could make one pretty simply. Also pretty sure that the batteries will have a longer life if they are charged ASAP too.
#11716
I did an upgrade recently and on the same scooter. I put four 13.9AH 12volt lead acid batterys on this thing for 48 volts. Then I just got a controller for 48Volts and 30Amps. I didn't change the motor. With this setup I able to get 26-28MPH. I got very good range and its NICE AND FAST! :D But not fast enough. Im trying to achieve 35MPH. The power was so much that it kept yanking the motor backwards making the chain loos. :!: I am going to do a sprocket mod from the standard 11 tooth and 90 tooth sprockets to 15-16 and 65 tooth sprockets. This will also fix my problem with the motor being pulled back too much.
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