I want to go faster.

Moderators: robnewyork, bassiclyLouDog, gameboy

By flguy
#20909
I have seen the various other posts about Dune Buggy mods here. I've done the 36v over-volt, which was a piece of cake. I'm getting ready to take the next step, though, and need some advice.

1) First, if I go up to 48v will I fry the stock 24v motor and/or control any time soon? My son only weighs 50lbs so there is not a huge load on it in the first place, and everywhere he rides is flat (it's Florida).

2) If I go with a 24v 450w Currie motor, will that help lessen the chance the motor will fry on 48v, as well as give it more torque?

3) The Currie 24v 450w tuns at 2400rpm, so I'm expecting to get 4,800 rpm. Without changing any of the gearing, what kind of top speed can I expect out of that? 15-18?

4) Some people claim the stock 350w motor is really just a 250w motor. Why is that? They all cross reference MY1016. Btw, My buggy is version 17.

5) Is the Low Voltage Cutoff really that big a deal? My kid does not ride it that long. I just charge it whenever he comes in, so far not a problem.

6) Finally, has anyone experimened with using a lifepo4 battery from Ping? I was thinking maybe it would be simpler and look better if I could just stick one of their 48v batter packs under the existing hood rather than add a 4th 12v 7ah battery somewhere outside the frame: http://www.pingbattery.com/servlet/the- ... Categories

8) Oh, and it would be cool if I could add some kind of TURBO button for my kid that would allow the 4th 12v battery to kick in. How would I wire up something like that? Not required, just an idea.

Thanks for any advice! The Razor Dune Buggy seems ripe for mods. We're having fun with it but I don't want to mangle the looks of it too bad, and I like the idea of the plastic cover protecting everything in case he leaves it out in the rain (again, Florida).
By robnewyork
#20910
Lvc is very important , ur controller wont run 48 volts and the motor would die anyway , and amps equal toque, u will need an upgrsded controller, motor above 500 watts and bigger batteries for any real gains...a cheap top speed mod for a 50 lb kid is put a 13 tooth sprocket on the motor as opposed to the 11, he should. Gain 2 mph no other mods needed..
By flguy
#20912
The stock controler is running 36v very well right now. You're saying it will won't run at all at 48v? I was hoping to get away with as few upgrades as possible since the buggy is not heavily used. The motor will be 24v 450w. Not doing 500. You're saying it will die when? Like after a few runs? Immediately? I don't expect my kid to use it at WOT all the time. He doesn't even do that now.

Just swap the tooth from 11 to 13? That sounds easy. Is that in combo with the rest of the mods I've proposed, or just as-is? Thanks again. I am fairly new to this.
By robnewyork
#20913
That sprocket alone will give u 2 mph.. hook up the 48 v to stock controller it may work..if sou will need to monitor voltage , u will kill the batteries below 44 v and will need a 48 vcharger also..no to mention u will need to wire the charging port past controller to batteries in order to charge..the motor will get hot, how long it will last.. well ur run time willbe half that of stock so20 minutes and u will know..
By robnewyork
#20914
The 450 watt motor will make nodifference...a guy here has done it with a currie 24 900watt motor on ur kart with 48 volts and sucess. But his run time is very short and he used a stock charger i think.
By flguy
#20919
I guess all of the above. I'm looking for a good, general combo of a little extra speed, torque and reliability. Run time is not too high. I also don't want to have to rewire the whole thing as I am not an electrician in any way shape or form, I'm good a reading directions, that's all. His current setup is "fine", he's not complaining, but of course as a dad I want him to have a blast and we have the room to do it. So I was thinking the 450w motor would be sturdy enough to handle the extra volts while providing extra torque, and the 4th 12v batter (46v total) would give it enough juice to squeeze a few more mph. This is all strictly flat pavement. 50lb rider. Maybe 90lb is he goes tandem with some of his friends. Not looking for more than 18-20mph.
By flguy
#20920
P.S. I just bought a 36v charger for the newly over-volted system. If I add another 12v 7ah battery, will my 36v charger charge the new 42v system? Are there any dangers? Should I get a 12v battery tester and make sure they are each performing correctly? I'm not trying to be cheap, I just don't want to spend money unless absolutely necessary, but I realize it's going to cost me more down the road if I screw things up. This is one giant experiment basically. I was even thinking of springing for a Ping 42v LiFePO4 to make life simpler than having 4 12 volts sloshing around. Thanks again for any advice.
By robnewyork
#20922
no 36 v wont charge 48, and if ur looking at ping we would have some seriuous work cut out anyway.. rewiring would be simple, 48v 30 amp charger, hall throttle , mounting the motor would be hardest , and u need 4 new 12 ah batteries, all the cost of one ping battery..either way 18mph is a huge task on dune buggy, may be cheaper to get him a pocket mod that does 15 stock for 265 bux, still cheaper and less work than ping or my ideas.the 13 tooth would be my first mod if hes already hitting 13.5 mph , 15.3 will be nice.for 20 bux shipped from tnc.. also , if hes riding more than 30 mins ur killing those batteries gradually.batteries can be securied with zip ties no sloshing.just on 7ah batteries and 48 v run time will suck assuming batteries are brand new which they arent.
By flguy
#20925
I'm still not sure...if I add a 4th 12v 7ah batter, will my stock control work or not? If so, for how long? WIll the 450w currie make a difference in motor longevity at 48v? I want to mess with as little as possible but get max torque and speed. Thanks.
Last edited by flguy on Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By maurtis
#20929
Regarding the stock motors, some of the earlier models had an actual 350W motor. Then later models had a motor with the same mounting bracket and diameter but less depth, what we commonly call a 250W motor. This is very apparent on the e300 scooters. I am not sure which model of Dune Buggy we have, but it had the larger version. The thinking is that the larger the motor the more heat it can dissipate so take more power before melting down.

Most stock Razor 24V controllers will not take 48V. They will not even turn on, nothing. Some of the newer on/off style controllers will not even take 36V. It is unlikely that your controller will take 48V but if it does I doubt it would last long. Same with the stock 24V motor. They usually run fine on 36V, but smoke pretty quickly at 48V. Your kid is pretty light so you can try it for yourself, but others have gone before you and almost always end up cooking the motor in a very short time.

Ping packs are used often in the electric bike community. They have a solid reputation. You pay a little more than you would for a generic Chinese eBay pack, but you get customer service that will actually respond to your requests and a valid warranty.

Mounting new motors is pretty easy on these rigs. Angle iron cut to size and bolted to the frame make it easy. If you can weld, even better. A higher wattage motor does help with longevity since they can take more heat before releasing the magic smoke.

I ran a 36V 1000W motor on ours at 48V for a little while. First on a 48V 30A controller, but the kart barely moved. It would have probably been fine with a kid, but still it yearned for more.

1000w_motor_rear_scaled.jpg


Went to a 100+A yk43b, now things got moving! Ended up burning out the smaller gauge wire I was using quickly, so went to 10 gauge Turnigy and 8 gauge Home Depot stranded and had no additional issues:

1000W_yk43b_rear_scaled.jpg


That setup got us to 20 MPH and good torque. The issue I started having then was that controller was murder on the little 8AH batteries. I knew that larger batteries were in order. 12AH-15AH would still fit nicely but give you some more headroom with power delivery. 18AH-22AH even better. I got a screaming deal on an industrial motor a short time later, so went with the overkill route.
By flguy
#20933
robnewyork wrote:i really dont know where ur getting 42v


Sorry, I meant 48v. I updated my post. I will give my mods a try, starting with the extra 12v battery (48v in total) and see if it moves with the existing controller. If it moves, then I'll upgrade the motor. If it keep moving, I'll live with it until something dies then I'll upgrade again at that time. My last question to confirm: will my 36v charger work on the 48v (4-12v battery) setup?? I don't care if it takes longer to charge, but if anyone knows that would be great.

Thanks for everyone's advice. I'll post back with results.
User avatar
By maurtis
#20936
robnewyork wrote:no 36 v wont charge 48


As Rob said, a 36V charger will not fully charge a 48V pack. It will cut off before the pack is even remotely charged.
By flguy
#21005
robnewyork wrote:Now with the 13 tooth u will gain top speed but lose a tad in acceleration , if hes 50 lbs u wont notice.


I think I am going to try this sprocket mod first instead of the 48v idea. I have never done this before. How easy is it to change? Are there instructions somewhere? This is the sprocket I was going to buy: http://www.thesuperkids.com/13tospwi10bo.html Is this the correct one? Thanks again for all the help.
User avatar
By maurtis
#21009
As long as it is the right bore and type. You upgraded from the stock motor, right? The stock motor has a single D bore sprocket and uses a nut to hold it on, versus that one with a circular bore and roll pin.
By flguy
#21018
maurtis wrote:As long as it is the right bore and type. You upgraded from the stock motor, right? The stock motor has a single D bore sprocket and uses a nut to hold it on, versus that one with a circular bore and roll pin.


I have not upgraded the motor yet. I was going to upgrade to a Currie 24v 450w (http://www.monsterscooterparts.com/24v- ... gQodJ4wAiQ) but decided to try the sprocket idea first so thanks for those details! The one I linked to above looks like it has a pin and circular bore so I'm guessing that would NOT work on my stock motor.

Now that I look more closely, I notice the RPMs on the 450w are a little lower than the 350 (if the numbers are to be trusted), so it sounds like a wash in terms of top speed having lower RPMs but a higher tooth count on the same 36v system, right? Or do I go up to a 15 tooth on the 450w?

By the way, I have read about this mythical 3000 RPM 24v 500w motor but can't seem to find it for sale anywhere. I'm definitely looking for something with a compatible mount that won't require a lot of re-packaging.

Decisions, decisions. Sounds like I'll have to do a lot of experimenting. I know there have been similar discussions all over this board. I was hoping to keep my topic limited to the 48v discussion but I guess it's never one thing that makes a difference, it's a whole combination of factors.
Voltage boost 24 -> 36v on the fly

Nah, thought about running another controller and […]