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By zen_racer
#16187
just wanted to share pics of my active projects ...i decided to use the pocket rocket platform for my initial taste of over-volting fun because of how easy it was to work on. i picked up the red one first and spent alot of time riding it in stock form to establish a baseline. then i stumbled on another CL find and picked up the even better condition blue one for cheep cheep:

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stripped down the GP200, looked barely used:

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had a buddy fab up a battery tray... nice & snug but he welded it upside down :roll: :lol:

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here's the final layout with the 36v MX650 controller with matching variable spd throttle:

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wanted to go a different route with the red bike:

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nothing fancy here - i have zero experience with lipos so wanted to take a simple approach:

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had some time last night to check out the wiring:

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right before first ride:

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took it around the block today and nothing blew up :D


By Saintmythi
#16192
grats. after looking at the compair pic. i may use those 1 day. looks cool. thanx for the look inside my little brother wanted 1 of these to play with. i would make it so you pay on top of it, like superman. cool idea/ bad idea.
User avatar
By bassiclyLouDog
#16231
I really want to see how fast 1 of these little guys can be. An old forum member mentioned doing a dual motor build, but "wasn't impressed" this thing is soooo tiny I can' see mounting a 2nd motor. Could you provide some pics of the motor and area around it?! I've done 60v on an e300...these are the same tires. I'd love to see this thing be a rocket.
User avatar
By zen_racer
#16237
thanks guys! waiting on a power meter so i can check the #'s out so for now just havin fun comparing the two builds.

@ rob - never had a 500, do you mean the mx650? that one's still stock but it'll probably get the best stuff put into it when all is said and done!

@ Saintmythi - i'd read plenty on the size differences but having them in hand, then seeing the improvement in the bike's handling, makes it hard to think about going back to SLA's.
bassiclyLouDog wrote:Could you provide some pics of the motor and area around it?!
two RC motors maybe but i cant see two unites or curries fitting here? for the blue bike i'm eyeing the 24v 350w unite for the final build, or 36v 350w if i can get a 4th SLA mounted up front.

here's a view from the back:

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and view from the bottom:

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for the red bike i was planning on going brushless but this 400w won't fit unless i do extensive grinding... no thanks :(

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By Saintmythi
#16240
2n'd motor under the rear fender. above the wheel should work if theres room if not will need to fab a rear end mount off the frame
User avatar
By zen_racer
#16253
very interesting, i'll have to keep that option in mind... i might have an identical motor available if i dont burn it up first. what kind of power would be needed to feed that setup?

for now i'm going a milder route with build #2 on the red bike. had a minor accident which melted one of the ports on the lipo balance connector, leaving one cell unrecognized. the fix looks to be easy and parts are enroute from sarasota.

but with the downtime i decided to pick up a 4-pack of these for the red bike:

https://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/sto ... duct=18631

29.6v 10000mAh on the stock 24v controller. i've also got an 80t sprocket waiting to be installed but i'm going to order a few more from rebel gears, havent decided on the tooth counts yet...
By Saintmythi
#16257
being so small i would say a middle size so you have more speed. it will get up and go it sounds anyways. what ah would you say that lipo is? cas if there only $25 that's a great deal. but if that's comparable to a 7ah than probably not
User avatar
By zen_racer
#16263
those lipos are rated at 5000mAh, or 5Ah. i'm going to pair them up in parallel to make 10Ah to increase runtime, then wire up in series to get 29.6V total for a modest overvolt...

i havent come across a 12V 10Ah SLA battery that will fit in the stock config, too tall. you'd have to bend out the battery tray and lay those taller SLAs on their side.

with these hardcase lipos there's room for growth :)
User avatar
By zen_racer
#16268
Continuous current: 30A - would that be enough for two motors?

so far a few observations on the 36V blue bike (running MX650 controller and throttle, 3x 12v 8Ah SLAs)

- very similar results from this guys build on which i based mine: http://www.rcramer.com/bikes/pr200/build_1.shtml
- i maxed out at on the GPS at 21MPH on flat ground, using stock gearing.
- runtime sucks however and the motor heats up quick
- from a full charge, battery gauge will drop to low indicator immediately if i hit WOT at a slow speed, say < 10mph
- torque is sorely lacking, so looking at both wheel and motor sprocket changes
- in present config with stock motor/gearing, this setup is more than enough for most 6-9yr olds to handle plus with decent runtime and most of all it's simple plug & play with the wall charger
By robnewyork
#16274
OH , I THOUGHT IT WAS 40V, YES IY WOULD RUN EM, but id run 50 amp controller.. ,massive difference... and the controller programmable...laucnch at 50 amps cruise at 30.plus on 10 ah u will be able to peak 60a if im following corrrectly.
User avatar
By bassiclyLouDog
#16288
ok I see...the motor is mounted vertical....this would be tricky with some sort of welding. the 24v motors were a lot cheaper a few years ago >:( you'd be very happy with a 24v 350watter on three 3s lipos. lightwieght bike with pep. the 80t would make you even happier. the difference in the 2 motors, which at the time was only a few dollars more was impressive! The 350 will run a lot cooler as well. 19.2amp vs. 13.7, same rpms i believe. the pocket mod i have sits the motor too low for a double motor. maybe side by side, but I like the over under...plus it's a drop in mod with an e300 and a few longer screws. Just can't believe the hobby is getting more expensive although these hobby lipos seem to get cheaper. lb for lb they maybe a great investment if you just want short speed trips. the discharge capability is awesome for high amp controllers. I mean I could run a 2motor design on 72v and have a beastly drag scooter with the e300, but the space is limited...even with fitting 3 under the deck. my 60v e300 was impressive even with the small 8ah lead, but my controller was only 30amp and shared 2 motors so I never really saw full pull potential. with the 80t it was pretty intense, but I'd love to see it in all it's raging glory. figure a large controller, even with 2 unmatched motors should be the ticket, but then it's a matter of finding the perfect AH to space ratio. I can't even imagine the headache this tiny little thing would be. The allure is powerful though seeing some lipos hooked to it. You could carry this thing home. :lol:
User avatar
By zen_racer
#16723
bassiclyLouDog wrote:You could carry this thing home. :lol:
yes, literally ...i can fit a Drifter and both pocket bikes in my 2-dr hatchback :D

been swamped with work but wanted to update this thread w/ some progress pics (noob baby steps). one thing that slowed me down was the balance plug i damaged:

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ordered some replacement parts and did some research on the web... i was able to transfer the rest of the XT pins over to the new housing but had to cut out the damaged lead:

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the new pin installed the first try, though i could've trimmed the insulation a bit i decided not to mess with it:

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checked out fine and has worked w/o issue on test rides since...

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all the while i was getting in more parts every other day or so... mainly another set of lipos to test out. i did pick up a new unite 24V 350W, LB37 and 36v razor controllers, stock and heavy duty chain, 9T and 10T sprockets, etc

i wired up the four turnigy hardcase lipos as 33.6V (29.6V nominal) at 10Ah - here's how it looks next to a 12V 8Ah SLA:

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i opted to try the pack out using the stock 24V controller and motor...didnt take long for the controller to heat up!

http://imageshack.com/a/img850/2531/0aoe.jpg

i restrapped the lipos using some heavy duty rubber bands, much better than the velco harness i made up:

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even though there's room to spare in the pocket rocket to add at least another pair of hardcase packs, i think these will eventually end up in the MX650 where i can route the wiring a bit cleaner and still have plenty of room for a bigger controller.

next step in the project is to regear the blue pocket rocket's stock motor from 11/65 to 9/80... that should keep the motor from heating up as quick and take down top speed for a little bit more peace of mind when the kids are riding.

for the red pocket bike i'm going to install the 350W motor and switch out to the 10t sprocket and heavy duty chain. i've got a 36V controller and throttle that will drop right in but am going looking at a kelly instead, think that will pair up better with the zippy lipos.

not that i have any problems running the zippy lipos but those turnigy lipos are sweet ...thanks to Maurtis for the help on those!
By robnewyork
#16730
man, the kelly and the lipos will make this lil thing a beast , not to mention the new gearing , keep us posted.. im waiting to install my 200 amp kelly on my industrial mx500 , should crack my skull im guessing.in the meantime i doublevolted the neices powerwheels.
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By zen_racer
#17273
robnewyork wrote:man, the kelly and the lipos will make this lil thing a beast
so were you able to sort out that kelly issue? hopefully progress so i can feel a bit more comfortable about picking one up too.

unfortunately this project has had a few snags...the sprockets i picked up were too small for the MY1016 Unite so my gearing plans are no-go unless rebel gears can make some for me. for now it'll be 11/70 or 11/72 on the pocket rockets. i already have an 80T sprocket which fits fine but decided it wouldnt leave me with enough ground clearance on turns, bumps, etc. i've already scraped the chain guard on the stock 65T when leaning in on a few turns. a nice bonus was finding out the 80T is identical to the stock MX350 80T rear sprocket, which in turn has the same ID and uses the same bolt pattern as the MX500/650 sprockets. since rebel gears already has the template for the MX500/650 its just a matter of choosing the tooth count...

also, my lipo order from hobbyking was never processed, no explanation given just "unforeseen errors" even though the lipos were in stock and i paid in full. i canceled and now am searching for another retailer, not sure when/if i'll feel comfortable dealing with hobbyking customer service again. wanted to test out the LB37 up to 60V and see if i could fry a Unite in the process but that's gonna have to wait. i now have a pair of 36V Unites that will be run on 36V if i decide to mount them (yawn)

in the meantime, i couldn't pass on another craigslist find - another razor pocket rocket for $40 lol. not long after purchase it seems the owner had problems with the throttle, which he tried but couldn't fix. so with very little use they left it out in the backyard before they got tired of looking at it.

first plan was to simply replace the throttle with the one i had taken out of the blue pocket rocket, but as i started taking measurements i found out that this earlier version (v2) has a battery tray which sits about an inch lower than the other 2 pocket rockets. i went ahead and ordered up some 10Ah SLAs which wouldnt fit in the other two, hoping for success this time.

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also am toying with the idea of making some cuts in the frame so i can mount the Kollmorgen 24V 400w brushless...looks like there's room

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here's how how it looks compared to the Unite 250W
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if its true what they say about brushless performance compared to the Unites then i expect this build to be a sleeper beast!
By Saintmythi
#17276
very nice. hope the batteries fit and you can have 1 to ride wile working on the other 2. if its a crossbeam in the way why not use some metal bands to put the motor on. use it as a mount.
User avatar
By zen_racer
#17405
thanks guys i agree, this motor might be TOO nice for the pocket rocket. would be easier to commit to this project if i had the version 01 pocket rocket that had disc brakes front & back, instead of a rear band brake.

and another quick update - i discovered another error in the site i was referencing for my builds:

http://www.rcramer.com/bikes/pr200/drivetrain.shtml

seems the factory wheel sprocket is 55T, not 65T as indicated in the gearing notes. that explains the sluggish takeoff. good news is my lipos are en route so testing soon!
User avatar
By zen_racer
#24262
updating this thread w/ a bit of progress. not sure if i mentioned previously that i picked up a third PR200 off CL for $25. started the restoration earlier this year but put it on the shelf to work on other projects.

i went with a ZY1016 24v 350w mainly for easy install, just added some spacers from mcmaster-carr to clear the frame, no grinding needed:

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awhile back i picked up a couple of zippy's 5s and 2s packs when hobbyking had a blowout sale. added a zippy 3s and started charging them up, but my B6 charger went out... probably will pick up another reaktor soon:

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10s 8000mAh, 42v hot off the charger. using the razor mx500/650 stock 36v controller so added lipo alarms to each pack. plenty of space for more packs but that's not happening unless i get a brake upgrade:

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right before the initial test run on full charge, GPS for accurate #'s:

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with this setup and 11/55t stock gearing i was able to hit 27mph on level ground. no matter how much adjusting i do, the brake drum is not enough. as it stands i dont see the point of pushing for higher speed until i get disc braking, right now it just doesnt feel safe when taking a corner fast or going downhill.

i think 11/65t and those high capacity multistar packs would be my ideal setup if using the stock brake...
By robnewyork
#24268
VERY NICELY DONE @@@@@@@@@@@@@ we ran into the exact same realization when hitting about 27 ish on the pocket mod that the brakes were useless above 20 for any real emergency.. we installed a front caliper and had it welded up for the new disc wheel, we could pull endos it was insane.. the pocket mod eventually did mid 30s as i recall and stopped on a dime. What was even cooler, 15 to zero use both brakes, violent braking lol
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
#24272
Those things are fun at those speeds, nice job. Those B6 chargers are crap, I had one burn out on me as well. As far as the brakes go, it would be pretty easy to upgrade the brakes to disc. If you have access to a welder all you need to do is make a couple of mounting tabs for the caliper and weld them to the frame (after you've installed the rotor to the wheel and set the caliper on the rotor). It will be about $50 in parts, you can find the link to the parts needed below, hope this helps.

http://www.electricscooterparts.com/discbrakes.html
User avatar
By zen_racer
#24436
shortcircuit911 wrote:If you have access to a welder all you need to do is make a couple of mounting tabs for the caliper and weld them to the frame (after you've installed the rotor to the wheel and set the caliper on the rotor).
would be nice if i could take this on myself but it's going to a buddy. need some tabs for a kollmorgen i'm mounting and now that i know a brake drum isnt enough i'm going to have him weld on some tabs for the caliper too.

i just ordered the rotor adapter, 120mm disc, and caliper so will see those parts next week or after. meanwhile i think i'm going to take the 65t sprocket currently mounted and move it to the other pocket rocket running the 350w motor.

i called rebel gears and they said a 72t sprocket would have 5-7/8" OD which i think is enough ground clearance. here's a look at 55t vs 65t:

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hey rcramer if you're reading this post - noticed you refenced my gearing comment, above is a pic comparing stock 55t which were on all three PR versions i own and the 65t installed later... thanks!
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