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User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Just saw it, that thing is cool. I'm so pumped man I can't wait til' those motors come in. I still need to pick up the controllers and some more andersons. I'm thinking of just running a turnigy watt meter instead of a cycle analyst just so I can see what both motors are drawing instead of only 1. There is so much to cram under that deck its going to be a challenge. I could always just cut, grind, and weld, but I'd rather not. I would've been better off just making the scooter from scratch which I might do for my next scooter. I'm also hoping I don't add too much weight with all the new stuff I'm adding. I don't know the current weight (I know I've been threatening to weigh it, just haven't done it), but it's perfect for picking it up and climbing stairs at the train station. I'll be back with updates and the weight of the scooter as it sits.
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
well good news and bad news. I noticed my pack wasn't charging all the way to 50v the past couple of days, the voltage has been getting lower and lower, and top speed, and torque don't seem the same anymore. I checked the cells with a cell log and both packs had a .3V deviation between cells :o . I really don't want to start a fire, so I think I'll retire those cells.I'm really not surprised, these packs are 5 years old and were abused on my 6500w e300 project however, I may keep them around for some light duty projects. The good news is that this is forcing me to get all these new parts installed on my scooter. I was checking measurements and 2 6 fet controllers won't fit under the deck with the 2 lipos. I tried a few different arrangements, one with the controllers mounted to the frame and the other with both lipos in the back side by side, and I didn't really like either. I've decided that I'm going to make an entirely new battery box/ center of the scooter. I have a bunch of 16ga sheet metal, so I'm going to experiment with that. 16ga is thinner that what the frame is made of now, so I'll have to add supports, or just get thicker stuff. I marked up a piece I had and plan on cutting it on the bandsaw and bending it on the brake. I will also try and get it welded or at least tacked to see how it looks. Hopefully I can come up with something I like. It looks like its back to the balance board for the morning commute, I'm hoping to get this thing complete by new years. The new tray will be much bigger and will have the extra room to go to a 16-18s pack if I want. And since it's $10 more I might just go with 2 9fets since I dont have to worry about space. I plan on getting the disc brake parts ordered soon as well as a bunch of other stuff I want to add/change. I'm going to have a huge pile of bad buttocks parts to put on this thing soon! Can't wait to get started on the battery box!
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User avatar
By aidanworthington
That will be cool
I fancied that idea a few years ago
but the batteries then just weren't up to the job
24ah 12s would be epic
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Same here I wanted to do a chain drive dual motor (all wheel drive) currie scooter I was building back in the day, never did because I was broke lol. I'm kind of stuck on the new battery box, not sure which way to go. The stock battery box ia made of 12 ga steel and I only have 16. Not sure if I should get 12ga an experiment or use 16ga and add a bunch of bracing. some u channel would be sweet but its expensive and heavy. I was thinking maybe make the box out of 16, cut the sides off the current box and set the new one on top, then add some supports. I just want to make sure this thing is sturdy because I'm adding more weight and I ride it pretty hard (will probably ride harder with more power). I think I'm going to skip the gym tomorrow so I can spend about an hour and a half working on the battery box before work, otherwise no progress will be made until next week. I'm hoping it comes out the way I want so I can move forward with the hacking :twisted: . I also want to order the disc brake parts, crimper,10ga silicon wire, watt meters, and controllers by next week so I can start doing all the wiring and lessen the work load when the motors arrive. I still haven't received the tracking number so they're probably still a week or two out. I'll post some pics tomorrow of the progress made.
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Well change of plans (again). I was going to make a new battery box and decided it wasn't the way to go. To do it the way I was thinking would require me to really compromise the the strength of the frame. To make it strong again would add too much metal (weight). A while ago Aidan made a suggestion to use angle iron to raise the deck height, I'm going to borrow some of this idea. Instead of angle iron I'll use strip steel, and instead of welding to the side of the battery box I'll weld to the top. Essentially what I'm going to do it weld strip steel to the top of the battery box (butt joint), this should give me an additional 1 1/2" of clearance for the lipos. Everything should fit under the deck now, and I will add as little weight as possible. I weighed the scooter the other day and it came in at 33 lbs. My goal has been to keep it under 40lb, which is going to he close with all the new parts coming in. I've been on ebay all day ordering stuff for the overhaul of the scooter. I was able to pick up the following:
(2) watt meters
(2) disc brake rotors
(2) disc brake calipers
5' 10 ga silicon wire
more andersons, throttle pin connectors, crimpers, and some extra 22ga wire

I think all I need to get is the controllers from lyen and I'm good to go.
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Nope still doing dual motors just went back and forth on how to tackle the battery box. The motors should be in their way soon the seller asked me for my phone # so I'm assuming that's for the shipping company. Hopefully I can get er done by New Years.
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By shortcircuit911
Lol I'm right there with you. I just want dual motors and to not get killed on it in SF to make it to 30 in February. I went home for the holiday and found my old e300 (what's left of it) that I used in my 6500w e300 project. I brought it back with me so I can try and install the handlebar tube/folding mechanism on my scooter, it's just an idea for now I'll dive into it a bit more this weekend.
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Ordered my controllers today, hopefully I get them tomorrow. Got a text from DHL, my motors should be here by Monday. Parts are trickling in slowly. Hope to get the battery box sorted this weekend, and controllers programmed. Might be riding next week depending on how much work the forks need to get the motor mounted. Commuting with my balance board sucks it's awkward to carry around and I can't get around as fast on it. I miss my scooter.
User avatar
By zen_racer
shortcircuit911 wrote:Got a text from DHL, my motors should be here by Monday.
cool stuff, let us know how they test out. i'm looking to pick up one or two myself lol
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Will do. I'll sell you the one on my scooter now if your interested. I was going to put the motor, controller, battery and charger on the forum for sale to raise money for some lipos. PM me if you're interested I'll give you a screaming deal assuming you live in the US.
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Didn't make as much progress as i wanted to this weekend, the wife and kid got sick so garage time was limited. I did manage to get the scooter stripped and the steel strips cut to length. I was planning on TIG welding them, but that will take too long, and I'm going to grind the welds down so I can powedercoat the frame when I'm done. I'm planning on getting the steel strips MIG welded to the frame tomorrow after work. I also want to add another bead adding more support between the neck and frame, might as well since I have it apart. I'm planning on welding up the holes from the db25, and anderson connectors. I will cutout new ones in a better location. I want to wait until I have every single part to start making harnesses and connectors. I want every cable to be just long enough to cut down on wasted space under the deck. ALL wiring will be re-done, especially the high power stuff, I have top of the line silicone 10ga wire for that. The other wire I made my harnesses out of was too stiff and didn't have as many strands as the silicone wire does. My goal is to get the battery box done by next weekend, and to get the watt meters modified so that I can mount them on the handlebars, I'll keep you guys posted.
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By zen_racer
looking forward to the rollout, sound like its going to be a sweet ride esp with the attention to detail
shortcircuit911 wrote:Will do. I'll sell you the one on my scooter now if your interested
is that an 8" hub motor? for that size i'd love to try to mount two of them on the dune buggy. i'd like to try a golden motors open voltage setup in the MX350 or MX650.
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Zen yes it's an 8" hub, and thanks for the kind words.

Well the motors came in today along with the controllers. I think I officially have all the parts that I need to make this thing happen. I was able to take the frame to the shop I do fab work for work and welded it. It came out ok, still needs some more grinding. The battery box is going to be crammed with electronics! I'm hoping I can make everything fit nicely, it's going to be close. The seller I got my motors from said they offered a fork, he did t say it was a rear fork. I'll see if the motor will fit the e300 forks, if not I'll have to make my own. I was thinking it would be done by New Years, but I think it's going to take longer. There is a lot of fab work left along with a lot of wiring, it's hard to find spare time. UFC 194 is this weekend, so I doubt I'll have time, but we'll see. I'm going to take my time with this project. I like to overbuild things so I can ride like an A-hole. I'll post pics and updates as they come up.
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User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Same here, Aldo all the way!

Scooter should be sweet man, those motors are heavy! Hopefully I can get some more stuff done this weekend.
By robnewyork
ok cant wait stop going to mmajunkie and work on scoot.. i think connor may win , idk, but i really want weidmann to stop cocky rockhold.. i wish romero was younger but at 38 idk, jacare is fast.
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
My picks might be a bit biased because I train bjj and muay thai in the bay area, but I've got Aldo, rockhold, and jacare.

Anyway back to scooters! Got a few minutes to work on the scooter today, more specifically on one of the watt meters. My plan is to have them on the handlebars, so they need to be modified. If I were to run power wires up the the bars the inductance would be way too high and I would get voltage spikes that could cause damage to my electronics. Instead, I plan to de-solder the lcd screen from the shunt and make a harness between the two boards. This harness will be 22 ga wire or even ribbon cable. The only unknown is how long can this cable be without adding too much resistance that the screen no longer works due to voltage sag. Worst case scenario is that I can only get 6" extension and the lcd screen gets mounted out of the battery box. Mounting them to the handlebars would be ideal, but outside of the battery box works, I just need to be able to monitor power consumption easily. I need to put some more thought into the front forks. The e300 forks are a bit too tall so the wheel looks goofy in there. Another option is to use the rear fork I bought with the motors and weld a stem to it. I not sure how the rear fork would hold up to riding, it might be fine but it would be taking a load 90 degrees out of phase than it was designed for, hope I explained that ok. The last option is to just make my own fork. I still haven't decided what to do but I hope to have the front end done by next weekend. I plan to mount the rear wheel this weekend and maybe have the watt meter sorted out. I did a quick mock up with the rear fork on the front and it doesn't look bad, it also provides more ground clearance than the stock fork, I may go with this option.
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User avatar
By zen_racer
man that looks so solid... whats the estimate on total weight?

cant wait to see this on kickstarter so i can try one for myself!
User avatar
By shortcircuit911
Thanks Aidan, I'm a fan of your work as well, much respect.

Thanks Zen. I'm shooting for 40 lbs, but I think its going to be heavier. I can get a better estimate when I get the motors mounted.

I was able to cut the fork stem off the stock forks and the tabs off the fork I bought, did some grinding and got the top of the fork flush on the disc sander. I drew up a quick part in CAD and cut it out on the waterjet, its basically a centering plate for the stem. I really didn't like the quality of the stock stem, and length would've been an issue when welding it to the new fork so I hacked the e300 up (there wasn't much left to hack). Luckily the dimensions of the bearings and stem were perfect! I'm so glad I didn't throw that thing away. I'm going to skip the gym tomorrow morning and go work on the forks before work. I should be able to cut the stem off the e300 fork and get it welded to the fork that I bought. Then I have to turn down some stock to make a stop for the bottom cup of the bearing race. Usually there is a machined feature on the stem (I have to cut above this feature on the e300 fork) so I need to make one. It shouldn't be too hard, just another thing on that's pushing a test ride back even further. If i can get the front end done this week that would be huge. I need to get some button head M6 bolts for the brake rotor because the mockup bolts I installed stick out too far and hit the frame. A few washers are also needed for the rotor side of the hub to space the rotor bolts out a bit from the frame. As always I'll keep you guys posted on progress.
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User avatar
By shortcircuit911
ya SF is nuts, people DGAF.

Have had very little time to work on the scooter, been super busy with work. Got the fork welded and mocked up. The front tire is really close to the down tube of the frame, should've put more rake on the front end. May just add some spacers under the head tube to lift the front even more. There is way more ground clearance, but it's taller in the front than the back which I don't like, I'm open to suggestions, may just redo the fork, not sure yet. Pics as promised.
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User avatar
By aidanworthington
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just move the whole thing up

for your clearance issue i would mod the forks and move the wheel off center from the steering
otherwise itl be unstable at speed
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By shortcircuit911
Thanks Aidan! As always you come through with a pretty solid idea. I like the idea of sectioning the fork to add rake to the front end and solve the clearance issue, seems easy enough. Not sure what the writing in the pic says :(
I'm glad you mention the instability issue with the wheel being directly under the center of the steering stem. This could've all been avoided if I had the frame and forks together when I welded them, unfortunately that wasn't the case, oh well I'll fix it. Not sure how long it will take me to get the forks notched and re-welded, hopefully monday night (I have a few hours to myself after work on Mondays :) ).

This week has been crazy at work so I haven't got much done and I'm out of town this weekend so I wont get much if anything done. Monday will be the day for progress which unfortunately will be burned fixing the front end. I will try and start the wiring soon, I'd like to do a no load spin of the motors to see what kind of rpm they are spinning at. I will also need to get the correct bolts for the rotors and get the caliper tabs made and welded to the frame. The rear wheel is just mocked up and isn't set in it final place. I will probably only run rear brakes and if I need more braking power I'll add a front brake. I'm so curious to see how thing thing rides, but can't take chances with issues like the front fork issue, that needs to be resolved immediately. I'm also toying with the idea of making my own forks, I want to see how these hold up, I'm not sold on them just yet.

Hopefully I can be back with some progress pics very soon. Thanks again Aidan!
User avatar
By aidanworthington
If you look closly at the top pic
Iv moved the whole stering assembly up to the top off the battery box
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By shortcircuit911
Ya got a fair amount done this week. Haven't had time to post, went drinking after work today. Will try and post some pics tomm. Gona be epic!!!!!
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By shortcircuit911
Merry Christmas Rob, and anyone else reading this.

I was able to get some work done on the front end. I ended up cutting up the stock forks to reuse the sides. I cut a square around the drop outs and welded them on to the new forks. I put about a 25 degree angle on the piece before I welded it to get the center of the wheel off center to the steering tube (Thanks Aidan :D ). The mod worked (with some shims above the fork) and the tire has about 1/2" gap from the frame. I'm still not happy with the forks to be honest, they have the clearance I need, but they're ugly IMO. I'm going to keep them on for now so I can continue with the build, and will probably just make my own (possibly on the waterjet), because it is such a unique size.

Today I snuck into the garage for about an hour and got some work done. I made the y harness for the throttle (to control 2 controllers with one throttle). I also cut all the phase and battery wires in half and crimped anderson connectors on them. My goal is to get both motors spinning this weekend! I still need to make a series harness for both lipos and a parallel harness for the controllers. I plan on hooking up my multi to the controllers and checking no load wheel speed with my laser tachometer, then I can find the kv of the motors, hopefully they're the same.

There is still a lot of fab work to do, but hopefully I can get this thing moving under its own power soon, really can't wait to see what the top speed is. I also plan on hooking up the regen and playing with those settings to add more braking power/increase range. Hope to be back soon with lots of progress.
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By robnewyork
mind bending, i like the forks , grind and paint.. since the motors are on independent controllers like my dual motor drifter , the only time u feel it is at top speed hence i had 2 throttles. so when i nailed both throttles 0-12 was insane, then from 13 to 14 i let the one throttle go so the higher rpm motor would carry me and save range, food for thought
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By shortcircuit911
Got the power harnesses made out of the new 10 ga silicon wire and got the electronics wired up. In the process of wiring everything I managed to plug my throttle into the controller with the polarity crossed and burned out the throttle. I also think I burned something else out in the controller because the + and - of the hall sensor outputs of the controller are reading 2.8V. The blue, yellow, and green wires are reading 3.5V, a few of the wires may have touched while I was trying to get the hall sensor/ phase wire combo correct. I'm pretty pissed about this because its a rookie mistake and it could've been avoided had I paid more attention. I sent a PM to Lyen letting him know what happened, hopefully he knows what wrong with the controller, because I have no clue. I hooked the other controller up and both motors run smooth. I was kind of pissed because I checked the no load rpm of the motor and it was only 1,148 (the seller said they would spin over 1,500 rpm @ 48v. Luckily there is only a .2 kv difference between the two motors. Hopefully i can get the other controller fixed by next weekend and can go for a test ride, it really sucks seeing this thing torn apart for so long.
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By shortcircuit911
Ya man I couldn't wait and didn't have a lot of time. I plugged my throttle straight into the controller instead of the harness I made (polarity was crossed) and the throttle burned out. I'm not sure if that did something to the controller ( I don't think it did). When I was changing the hall sensor wires a few may have touched (while energized) so that may have done some damage. Still haven't heard from Lyen, we'll see what he has to say.
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By shortcircuit911
My goal for the weekend was to get the scooter to the point where I could go for a test ride. I reached my goal today and was able to ride a dual motor scooter in 2015, I can die a happy man.

PROGRESS: I pulled my 12fet lyen from the shelf and decided to hook it up in place of the 2nd 9 fet just to be able to go for a test drive. The front wheel is still spinnging about 5-8 rpms slower than the rear wheel, not too bad, it could be worse I guess. I received a new throttle from and wired it up (correctly this time) to both controllers. I have to say it's pretty cool seeing the front and rear wheel spinning at the same time!

TEST RIDE: I took it easy at first, mainly because I had no brakes, and also because there was no deck, and controller were sticking out of the battery box. At low speeds the motors are a bit noisier than I thought they would be, they quiet down once you get up to speed. I went around the block a few times just to cycle the battery a bit and get a feel for the performance of the scooter.

PERFORMANCE: I have to say I'm pretty pleased with the acceleration. It definitely pulls harder then the single rear hub I had previously. This thing feels like a rocket (more so because standing space was awkward and limited. The top speed according to a speedometer app on my phone is 23.6 mph. I was hoping to get at least 25mph out of both motors, but fell a bit short. I could always bump the voltage I guess. I unplugged the front wheel just to see what performance would be like and it was definitely not as torquey as my other hub motor (same controller and voltage were used), the top speed of just the rear motor was about 21 mph, so I'm getting much more torque, and another 2 mphs or so running the both motors. Like I said its a bit noisy at low speeds, but if you listen carefully you can hear them both winding up, and it sounds pretty cool. I hooked my watt meter up and went back out to see what the performance was like going up the hill in front of my house. Both motors together pulled 3,287 watts, and 75 amps.

ISSUES: I noticed the lipos were a bit warm when I got back from my test ride, they are 10c so I need to be nice to them and not get carried away with the current. If the ratings on the battery are true (I doubt they are) I'm not stressing it too bad (12ah X 10c =120 amps continuous) but warm lipos are not something you want. I'm having quite a bit of trouble getting the heardset to stay tight. The nut doesn't seem to be backing out, but the forks have play in them after pushing and pulling of the handlebars a few times, this is super annoying and needs to be addressed immediately. Battery box space is going to be super tight on this thing. I'm hoping I can make everything fit, switching power connectors may help with saving some space because the andersons are making it hard to route the power leads to the controllers, I can explain more later.

TO DO: There is still a lot to do to this thing, hopefully I can knock it all out quickly, spare time is hard to come by these days. Here's a short list of what needs to be done before I can start commuting with this thing again. Get headset to stop coming loose, cut motor wires shorter (they're about 2ft too long), get new watt meter, fit everything under the deck, cut out a hole for the db balance connector and andersons (charge plugs), notch holes in frame for motor wires (for better routing of the wires), get 2nd controller working,fab disc brake caliper mounts, make new deck (optional). These seem to be the obvious things that I need to fix, I'm sure there's a few things I'm missing.

Hopefully in a month this thing will be done. I feel like I reached a huge milestone today, its just the details that remain. I made a quick video (sorry for the quality I was holding the phone while riding).

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By robnewyork
dude we got the intended results and it was a sucess, the most wattage i did on a standup was 4950 and almost killed a best friend, when he crashed neighbors came to see if he was alive he had to ditch when the controller fried open throttle ( dumb i know) , your scooter sounds awesome and could tow a car,,congrats, the video and pics of mine are here but its not a thing i brag about,, aiden, wherever he is pushed 10,000 watts on an extended e300 but failed to post videos.congrats man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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By shortcircuit911
Thanks guys!

I got some spare time today and got a few things done today. I shortened the motor wires quite a bit (3ft in the front, 2ft in the rear!) that should give me some more space in the battery compartment. I also drilled another hole in the battery box for the wires of the front motor to enter the battery box in a better location. I pulled the front end apart again and made a few tweaks and filed a small tack weld I made that may have been causing issues with the front end. Hopefully I hear from lyen soon so I can get both controllers mounted under the deck, I really want to get this thing done! I have also started fabrication on the rear disc brake caliper mount, I should be able to knock that out by next weekend. I'm slowly scratching stuff off the to do list, hopefully it'll be done by feb.
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By shortcircuit911
Got a bit of time in the garage today, so I continued working on the rear caliper bracket. All that is left is to do a bit more grinding to make it prettier, and to zap it onto the frame. I was looking at the Y harness I made for the batteries and am really not satisfied. The 10ga wire I bought for the harness is a bit thick and has trouble going into the anderson housing. A few of the andersons have backed out a bit and are already showing signs of pitting from arching. So, I decided to order 30 pairs of xt60 plugs from ebay for cheap! The dimensions are a bit shorter than the andersons, so I'm thinking they will save me some room under the deck and also make it easier to route the left battery leads in a U shape (this battery faces the opposite direction to make more room under the deck). Hopefully those come soon, I'll keep using the andersons until then. It's looking really good for having disc brakes by next weekend. The last test ride was so sketchy-no deck, controllers hanging out, one grip, no brakes, loose front end, yeah I was determined. This weekend has been huge for this project, wish I ad more 4 day weekends. Anyway, as always I'll be back with more progress pics and updates.

xt60 connectors: ... EBIDX%3AIT
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By shortcircuit911
Ha, ya that would make things much easier but I want connectors.

Dropped the controller off at Lyen's house, he's going to do his best to fix it, we'll see what happens.

I received my new shunt for the new watt meter I ordered. ... EBIDX%3AIT

Still waiting on the watt meter: ... EBIDX%3AIT

The brake mount is done, just need to weld it on, probably this week, kids birthday party was today and I'm busy tomorrow.
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By shortcircuit911
I received my watt meter and high current shunt. The meter is pretty small which is fine and the shunt is huge lol. I also received the xt60 connectors and they're smaller than I was expecting. So I went ahead and ordered 20 pairs of xt90s, I should be happy with those. I will use the xt60s for my other projects.

I've been super busy at work but have made some progress.Last week I rode my hoverboard to lyen's place and dropped off my controller to get repaired. He just messaged me today saying that it is done. He had to replace one of the voltage regulators and has shipped it to me, I should receive it monday. I'll definitely take my time hooking everything up. I'm also going to experiment with adding a 5K potentiometer on the signal wire of the slower spinning motor. I will try and sync both motors that way.

My goal for the weekend is to try and get this thing going on 1 or 2 motors. I have some frame work to do and I still need to weld the brake mount on and cut the line to size. Hopefully I can get some time in the garage this weekend and get this thing going. I'd really like to start commuting on this thing again because I'm getting tired of the hoverboard. I'll be back with more updates.
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By shortcircuit911
I got my 90s in today and yes they are quite a bit bigger. I will run the andersons for a few more weeks then I will make the switch to the xt90s.
I was able to get quite a bit done today. I welded the brake mount up and cut the cable to length. The wheel spins pretty nice with little runout. The brakes are very responsive and are a nice upgrade from the drum brakes that the scooter came with. I did a bit of grinding (welds) in the frame and taped up the lipos. I like to add an extra layer of protection to the packs I buy since they aren't hard case packs. I did a bit of rearranging in the battery box and found a better configuration for everything leaving more room and less mess. I hooked up the rear motor and took it for a spin down the street. It felt pretty fast to me, maybe because I've been riding the hoverboard for the past few weeks. I really can't wait to get the front motor hooked up and feel that acceleration. I need to get longer deck screws because of the extensions I added to the battery box. The plan is to take it to work on monday and install the 2nd controller when it comes in. I will slowly add the new parts and fix what needs fixing. Hopefully I have more spare time in the upcoming weeks so I can get this thing done and ready for paint or powder coat.
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