Anything that relates to scooters & general forum updates

Moderators: robnewyork, bassiclyLouDog, gameboy

By raymondrickson
#3089
hi guys, like this forum alot... just got two new e300s and was wondering if there is any more powerful motor i could replace the stock motor with that wont cause me also to have to change the kickstand mount, the batteries, or controller, etc.. In essence, is there any way to upgrade the speed, distance, or power without changing the look or functionality (being able to charge it through the original socket)? Even if it means i can only slightly upgrade it (to a 350W motor for instance).. thanks! :)
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3108
Just a few quick points....
1, even upgrading to the 350watt motor you will have to cut the kickstand(but you can bolt it back on)
2, I wouldn't go much more than 36v on 1 motor.
3, 36v will need a new charger/charging port, but this is easy to do.
4, 36v will increase speed from 12 to 17mph+ but decrease range
5, it is very hard to do anything to this scooter without a little cutting or tinkering, but it is soooo worth it!

If both scooters are operational and have decent batteries, I would use your existing parts and make 1 monster scooter.
I would take the batteries and motor out of 1, cut the deck, buy some longer bolts, and top mount the 2nd motor. I would buy a $10 worth of #25 chain and figure out how to drive the 2 motors(it's not that hard) I would then mount the 2 extra batteries to the rear fender.
After all that you need a $24 36v controller upgrade and a 48v charger, and a $3 charging port. The result will be a 48v dual motor scooter with hill climbing ability, a few miles of range, and a top speed of around 20mph.

I used a 350watt motor, a 250watt motor, and 5 batteries on mine and it was a fast beast! The best part is with 48v you're only putting 24v to each motor so your system will run as smooth as the original.

That's just my 2 bits. I've ran 48 and even 60v on 1 motor and it fried in less than 3 blocks.
By raymondrickson
#3113
rthat sounds pretty awesome..... ;) so if just added another battery to each scooter i would actually lose range? appox how much? and i would be able to charge them in the same place as now with the new charger and port? im thinking maybe just this for now because one is for my daughter the other for me... ;) what would be the speed or power increase if i just added the extra battery? thanks 4 your input!
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3118
OK. I see what you are getting at. I would recommend on yourself going to 36v. It will carry you easily enough to keep up with your daughter. Mine is 11 and I won't let her ride 36v because it is so torquey! It can throw her off if she hits the throttle too hard. As far as range I got around 30min @ 12mph and on 36v I got about 15-20min @ 18mph. I could get almost 4mi range. I also used a car charger to be fully charged in 80min. My throttle was a twist on, let go off so every time I hit the throttle it would wind up slowly taking a long time to get up to speed. My 1st mod was using an 80t sprocket on the rear tire. I had to lengthen the chain, but the pickup was amazing. Top speed in half the distance. This would also make 36v more efficent as the motor gets up to operating speed faster.
Check it out,....

1st find out what kind of throttle you have... an adjustable throttle is needed

throttle
http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101102
http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=102306
$10

charger is no problem.
http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101140
$16
all you have to do is connect your charging port harness into the controller's charging harness.

36v controller
http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101193
this thing will run 5 7ah batteries...60v. I'm running 2 of these controllers on 60v. The 4 and 5 wire models.(which is cheaper than the 5wire model.)

Now there is a catch, if you need to get the adjustable throttle you will need to put the pins and harness together, but it's not impossible.

Get 3 of these and put the 2 that you have up on the shelf. Keep them topped off with a 12v trickle charger 1 a month.
Then if your daughter wears out the 1st set you have a 2nd set.

Batteries
http://cgi.ebay.com/12V-8Ah-SLA-Sealed- ... 2a0d7d17f5

These will fit in your deck just fine. The 3rd problem you will have will be mounting the 3rd battery. When I did mine I hung a cooler bag from the steering tube. I would now strap it to the rear fender with a ratchet strap. You will really enjoy the scooter, and your daughter will get a kick out of a simple sprocket swap....you could also swap your rear sprocket. That's what I did and the hill climbing ability was awesome.
By raymondrickson
#3125
thanks 4 all your help!

heres a picture of my current throttle. i believe its adjustable... i mean it feels adjustable...

http://www.shopmania.co.uk/shopping~onl ... 47239.html

so do i need a longer connector cable to connect the 3rd battery as well? Since its out of the box the other 2 are in?

also do you have a link to the car charger you might use with this for quick charging? thanks again for all your input ;)

Also since i've gone this far, is there a best motor upgrade that would fit with all these parts and the current sprocket/chain?

thanks again for your time
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By shortcircuit911
#3135
I wouldn't buy a car charger for your scooter. I would just buy a 36v inline charger from tnc for like 16bux. it can be found here: http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=101140 As far as wiring the 3rd battery you may need to add more wire to complete the series configuration (depending on location). You can get some 12awg wire from radioshack, and some 1/4" tab female connectors (also available at the hardware store). The sky is the limit with motor options. It all comes down to your budget as well as your skill level. A 36v 1000w motor will move move the e300 very well. I did this mod a while back, and you can see the results here. http://www.modifiedelectricscooters.com ... PIC_ID=470
Or you can go with a brushless motor with 6500w like my current project found here: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=39
The best thing to do is figure how much you want to spend, and how fast/far you want to go. Once you post that we can help you attain your goals.
By raymondrickson
#3138
well thanks 4 your input! if you get the 6500w motor setup working good would you be willing to help build an identical one? I notice you live in California as well.... it looks really cool!
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By radio2
#3184
I changed my E300 motor to a 350W 24V and added a third batt to make 36V and changed the rear sprocket to 65T, Also changed throttle control and controller, What a difference it made. I now keep up and pass my 8yr old son on his stock E-300 but It dosen't run as long as his.
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3185
Try monsterscooterparts.com and click the razor icon. They have most every part for a lot of razor vehicles. I am not 100% sure, but as far as I know the variable twist throttles have led status lights. The link you posted have twist throttles, but they do not say if they are var. you can tell for sure. if they are not var. they twist on, and you wait as the scooter slowly gets up to speed. If they are var. you should be able to creep slowly and accelerate as you wish. You will know the difference.
If you do not use a variable throttle and overvolt, you will have quite a shock! Unfortunately all the british razor stuff is labeled differently. The 1 thing I know for sure if it is a 36v scooter, it is variable. the razor MX500 and MX650 are both 36v for sure. You can get 1 of those throttle, they have lights, and they will work just fine.

If you are interested in lipo/brushless it is best to start with selecting the proper battery rig. That is the most expensive and crucial part. The brushless motors are super cheap and efficient, but require installing hall sensors to use a proper throttle and selecting an ebike controller to match. Not an easy 1st step. You could simply plug a hall throttle into a servo tester...it works but there is a majot delay in throttle response and very poor syncing at low speeds. Also note in Shortcircuts's video that the servo tester throttle was slower than the regular hall throttle setup. So you lose power.

I recently upgraded my daughters razor sit down to 36v and she loves it! It runs awesome through the yard and climbs some crazy hills, but as Radio said, the batteries don't last long. I'm thinking of giving her a lipo rig and stealing her lead back for my 3rd dirtbike until I can afford to go lipo myself.
I would love to get a brushless as well, but I get enough power out of my current rig that I am content.
My biggest gripe is charge time. even with a car charger it takes 3hrs or more to charge for a 20min run through the field...about 3-4 miles range.
With lipos apparently they can recharge in an hour and run longer, but you have to take extra care not to overdrain them!
By wintert
#3350
Sorry to bust into the thread but I need to ask:
I have a Razor E300.
I weigh 160lb.
The razor doesn't seem to climb even small hills. it starts to slow down to a Walking speed.
I fully charged the batteries.
Does it suppose to act this way?
How do I know if the batteries are draining very fast?

Thank you
User avatar
By chozian
#3351
wintert wrote:How do I know if the batteries are draining very fast?

Thank you


You can use a 50A battery load tester on each 12V battery to determine what the voltage drops to with a 50A load on it. That will let you know whether or not the batteries are still good.
By wintert
#3358
Is there any manual or video to explain how to replace the rear wheel tooth and the chain?

Thank you.
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3367
well those hills are steep. I need to get speed up before I climb. they creep real slow twards the top. if I don't have enough speed, I end up crab walking the dirt bike. The beauty of the 300 is you can kick it.
to replace the sprocket, you loosen the 4 hex bolts and attach the new sprocket to the freewheel. you will need to order more chain...you could order 1ft minimum and a few master links. All you do is put up the tire as far back as you can, connect the chain, link it. when you want to remove it, you slide the wheel forward and pop the chain off the sprocket. A lot easier than my double motormount. the chain had to link around the frame. At least with 1 motor you can mark the link, take the chain over to the work bench and connect it.
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3394
that sprocket will be it, but if you can get 1 w/ a guard on it it would be better. Doesn't matter though. You should be able to just buy a ft of chain and link it to your 300's chain. so step 1 is to break your chain...the master link is a link that has a clip that snaps on. You could get 2 to link your links. I just hammered mine together.
By wintert
#3399
LouDog, do you know where I can get a sprocket with guard on it?
You mean that I should stay with my current chain and by more links and add those to the current chain by breaking my current chain and attaching more links to it?
About connected them, I have 2 options? one is to break the new chain i buy and then attach it to my current chain and the other option is to buy a chain, break it and connect it to my current chain?
It doesn't sound hard :)
Worth buying it:

The Master Link connects chain together into a continuous solid loop. Master links also make it possible to remove and install chain without having to remove the rear wheel.
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3415
the sprocket guard isn't crucial, but it helps if your motor is mounted slightly crooked. you could buy a chain break for $12 or do it hard and sloppy like i did. Either way you have to try it. 1ft of chain is $3 which is plenty to add the sprocket. brake the old chain. master link your new chain on, run it around the drive train. set your rear wheel back where you want it tight. Mark the link, break off the excess chain, master link the loop. Slide tire forward to loosen and slip off the sprocket. Pull back to tighten chain. Easy, and worth it!
tncscooters or monsterscooterparts are the 2 sites I use.
By wintert
#3417
I don't know if the Razor will be good for me.
Someone sold it to me here in Israel for 800$!!!
I didn't know that it worth MUCH less. and it isn't even new.
He just ripped me off and he doesn't want to cancel the deal and let me bring it back.
So I am kinda stuck with.
The problem is that I don't know how much I need to spend to make it be the way I need it to be.
1st of all, I need to check the batteries, maybe they are old and doesn't work.
I will take it to someone who can test it.
Do you think that in my weight 160lbs, the Razor can drive 6 miles per charge with a legitimit incline?
here is an incline: http://www.mcm.edu/academic/galileo/ars ... line20.gif
my incline is half this incline. I guess it's between 10 and 15 degrees
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3422
keep it 24v with the 80t, you will have that distance covered and the 80t will bring you up the hill with ease. You will be slow...between 5-12mph, but you won't have to walk. You could go 6mi straight, but you will have to kick on the way back. I do everything simple...I ride it til it dies and note how far I went.
By wintert
#3423
Hey LouDog.
Thanks for your answers. I hope that I don't disturb you too much.
i am just a little bit angry about my situation with the shop I bought at and I wanted to know if I can stay with this scooter.
I goto the train and then from the train to work.
It's something like 3 miles. no hills or something.
Then, I will charge the Razor at work for 8 hours more or less and then on my way back, it will be the same distance, but I have 1.5 miles of the way back at a downhill.
For your weight (like me) and 24v batteries (stock) , how much time does it suppose to keep me up running without kicking it and in what speed?
And again, on a straight surface, How much time did you run it and in what speed?
If I buy a new Motor (350W, will it fit?) and a new Controller and change the sprocket to 80t, will I feel the difference?

Thank you very much
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3445
Well being that you spent as much as you did I would try the cheap route 1st. 1ft of chain is $3, $2.50 for masterlinks, $10 for a sprocket on tncscooters.com
This is in dollars and I'm not sure about international shipping. But that mod alone will wake up your scooter. It run run 6mi straight on full throttle easily. 12mph...maybe a little under. since you only travel 3mi at a time it won't even take 8hrs to charge before your next run. You see addIng batteries is bulky and instantly diminishes run time not to mention expensive. If you get a 350watt motor you are not going to go faster or run longer, and you will have to drill new mountholes to get it to fit.
You do not bother me at all. I can only give you my experience. I can tell you for sure that you will not be disappointed by the 80t sprocket and it's cheap. start there. If you want more, you can certainly mod it. my e300 ran 2 motors and 5 batteries which was really fun but scary. If I went down a hill the brakes would get hot and wouldn't stop because the thing was soooo heavy.
By wintert
#3447
Hey LouDog.
after a lot of phone call and testing, I decided to sell the Razor (or maybe hopefull turn it back to the store tommorow) and buy a Trekker electric scooter.
this one: http://trekker-israel.co.il/Eng/
I drove on one and I don't think that adding 80t sprocket will be like that.
It goes steep inclines with not much a problem and this is what I needed to buy instead the Razor.
As everyone told, the Razor is for kids (and people who wants to upgrade it) and it looks like it.
I don't see myself drive on the Razor to work and back.
The Trekker that I sent you is much more than what I need.

Thanks for your help
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By gameboy
#3455
hell ya, that trekker seams like the way to go. 8 mile range, 560w motor, lights, turnsignals... nice scooter.
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3476
well at least you can get your money back. These are meant for kids, but the compact and semi-light design is beneficial for travel. looks like you found a better solution with the trekker. if you had lipo batteries you wouldn't have to mess with heavy lead.
By snokol
#3478
bassiclyLouDog wrote:well those hills are steep. I need to get speed up before I climb. they creep real slow twards the top. if I don't have enough speed, I end up crab walking the dirt bike. The beauty of the 300 is you can kick it.
to replace the sprocket, you loosen the 4 hex bolts and attach the new sprocket to the freewheel. you will need to order more chain...you could order 1ft minimum and a few master links. All you do is put up the tire as far back as you can, connect the chain, link it. when you want to remove it, you slide the wheel forward and pop the chain off the sprocket. A lot easier than my double motormount. the chain had to link around the frame. At least with 1 motor you can mark the link, take the chain over to the work bench and connect it.


Sorry to butt into this but i've tryng to find a freewheel option for an idea i have involving a mobility knee walker

Rather than speed then ( im disabled ) Im looking for something that can assist / give me almost walking speed but with good torque for rougher terrain or uphill if possible.

I had look at e300 but wondering then if it would be 2 powerful for someone in my weight class ( 175 - 80 lbs ) whose looking for more torque than speed .

I also looked at the citybug e2 as another alternative because it almost has the same size of wheels as my kneewalker ( 8" ) and appears to have quite a light motor with freewheel already built in.

Any way, if any has any suggestions you can read more about my idea here http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=18558 and let me know what you think , Id really appreciate any suggestions as I believe this possible with perhaps a little work.
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By bassiclyLouDog
#3490
i did read your ES thread though I can't offer any advice I would suggest looking into a geared motor which will run way more efficent than just motor to wheel. hubs, brushless or not don't usually come small and aren't cheap.
http://tncscooters.com/product.php?sku=106115

the link is just an example.you want torque to pull you up not 20mph so the engine energy can be used more effectively. a motor is designed to run most effecient at top rated rpm. the time it takes the electric to spool up to speed under load is where a lot of energy is lost as heat. the heat build up is damaging. the gear help use the energy and run cooler.
By Mr.EngineerHopeful
#5996
Hey, I currently have 2 razor e300s' and i want to take the motor from one and top mount it to the other motor. How do I do connect the second motor to the system? Also, I am going to add 2 batteries so I will have 4 and I will change the controller to this one:
http://tncscooters.com/index.php?route= ... uct_id=183

What will these mods do to my scooter in terms of speed, hill climbing ability and range? Your feedback is much appreciated! :D
By Mr.EngineerHopeful
#6001
OK, thanks. What was wrong with the first controller? And do i also need to buy a 48v throttle if i already have an adjustable throttle thats not 48 volts?
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By bassiclyLouDog
#6016
nothing is wrong with the controller other than it is cheap. the throttle won't matter unless you want the lights to be accurate. if you run your scooter to the lvc, the lights don't matter anyway. but keep in mind neither of these controllers have a 5pin throttle hookup. so you need a compatible throttle for the controller you end up choosing.
By Mr.EngineerHopeful
#6059
O.K. so im confused. i have taken a break from my scooter as i have been away from home for the summer, but now that im back ive been trying to get this 48v controller to work with the plugs in my scooter (original motor plug, original throttle plug, original brake plug,original battery plug, and new 2tabbed 48v charging port plug) the reason i am having trouble is : 1. when trying to connect say, the charging port plug to the plug on the controller, both plugs will have female quick disconnect slots and i cant attach them to each other. 2. the plug heads wont match up. 3. there will be say 3 quick disconnect slots on the battery plug of the scooter and only 2 on the plug of the controller. I know this is alot but your help is very much appretiated.
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By gameboy
#6064
your going to have to change either the plugs on the scooter or the controller if you want a "plug and play" application. if you just are looking at getting it to work then you can cut and splice with hard connections or just put any old connector on either end of the wires your messing with.

you will need the "pin out diagram" or schematic of how the controller is wired to match up all the wires correctly to the scooter.
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By gameboy
#6087
my suggestion is to switch out the scooter connectors and leave the controller ones alone. you can buy a bunch from tnc for practically nothing and have a few on hand for the next mod, just buy all that you need the first time to save on shipping.
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