Need new motors? break a chain? brakes not work? swapping out pinions or sprockets?

Moderators: robnewyork, bassiclyLouDog, gameboy

#26917
Hi all, I had tried running a YK43B controller on 1 36V 800 MY1020 motor and was able to find the hidden white smoke in the motor. :?
When running the motor now under no load it makes noise & you can see sparks inside. If I reverse the polarity it seems to run normal, but for me that would run the wrong way.

I opened it up & a piece of wire fell out (can't quite see what wrapping it came from) and one of the contacts also fell out & is bent.
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Guess I could try to replace it, bend back in place & can hook up 1 of the 2 wires that would go to it as there is enough slack.
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but still thinking this would be a lost cause.

I do now see why someone commented on wasting a bunch of zip-ties when they swapped motor rear connectors due to the springs pushing out the brushes.
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Anyway, I am really looking for feedback on this type of dual motor setup. I have seen many where the 2 motors are basically bolted together with one slightly higher up then stock & the lower one kind of hanging there or they completely modify the rear swing arm by cutting & welding to make room for both motors up higher.

What I am thinking of doing is something inspired by the Punisher with one of the motors mounted high on the swing arm to keep what little ground clearance there is without dropping that down 3 inches. (need to peal off that sticker off and will be replacing the rear sprocket eventually)
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I know I need to be mindful of the chain not hitting, alignment and taking up slack when the chain expands from heat.
In the above photo I have a small spacer under the angle iron so this is not sitting on the tire, I think I can move it up a bit more or add a gear between the 2 motors so each has more chain wrapping around the sprocket & also use the stock chain tensioner. ( I left the stock chain on, just removed from the mounted motor & then ran a length of chain to see how this all aligns)

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I does not seem like this will hit any of the plastics when the seat assembly is put back on.
May still go with the together setup examples.
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(image from linked post above from killaj's project / posts there)

Anyway, any feedback or comments are welcome ;)


#26918
i'm sure the torque is nice but i dont like overvolted dual motors on a bike. one overvolted Unite pulls too much amps to get decent runtime, so i've no interest in doubling up on that problem.

when i add up the amount of labor for fabrication and added cost of the bigger SLA's needed to run dual motors for a decent amount of time, the numbers dont work for me. i also dont like the added weight from a 2nd motor on a 2-wheel ride because it affects handling too much.

after i get my PR200 and Dune Buggy builds finished i'll post up my MX650 w brushless motor build... same size as the stock motor so it'll drop right into the frame, 5600rpm @ 48v which spins faster than any overvolted Unite, and rated for 28a so it's sipping juice instead of chugging it...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V-1500 ... 408dbc4bca
#26919
zen_racer wrote:i'm sure the torque is nice but i dont like overvolted dual motors on a bike. one overvolted Unite pulls too much amps to get decent runtime, so i've no interest in doubling up on that problem.

when i add up the amount of labor for fabrication and added cost of the bigger SLA's needed to run dual motors for a decent amount of time, the numbers dont work for me. i also dont like the added weight from a 2nd motor on a 2-wheel ride because it affects handling too much.

after i get my PR200 and Dune Buggy builds finished i'll post up my MX650 w brushless motor build... same size as the stock motor so it'll drop right into the frame, 5600rpm @ 48v which spins faster than any overvolted Unite, and rated for 28a so it's sipping juice instead of chugging it...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V-1500 ... 408dbc4bca
Now that is a plan right there!^ What controller are you using?
#26920
the seller responded to my questions and provided this link for the compatible controller for this motor:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product ... 85138.html

my Dune Buggy will be getting the bracketed version of the motor, but i'm probably going to buy it from a domestic shop. i want to compare my aliexpress sources to domestic sources for parts. so i'll be picking up these for the DB:

http://www.hyperpowersports.com/product ... ckets.html

http://www.hyperpowersports.com/product ... oller.html

it was unexpected but i got more prompt responses from the seller in China than the Hypersports guys, so we'll see who gets my future business...
By robnewyork
#26925
the dual motors will draw no more than a single motor on a single controller. the controller will not allow it.. it does add weight though.. it looks like u almost have it rigged to the point of testing so id actually test it!.. the 5600rpm motor is really nice, i dont know the amperage limits on it but heard it can handle the 100amp golden controller on stock voltage.are the 2 motors u have mocked up bioth in good shape and viable>>? maybe try running them on 36v and seee how it goes.. u wont gain torque but u may gain reliability wired in paralell.
#26931
robnewyork wrote:the dual motors will draw no more than a single motor on a single controller. the controller will not allow it.
is this the motor we're talking about:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/800-W-36V-DC-el ... SwQItT7tja

rated for 28.5a so that's 57a for two. YK43B will allow how much current at startup?

curious about that mcdesign build, going to search ES
#26933
his best work is here.. i provided link..
yes, thats assuming ur running a limited controller. the fact is even a single 800 watt will pull the yk43b 196amps, so running two will not allow the yk43b to push 392 amps.. its gonna still allow the 196amps max.. what ur looking at is the suggested nominal amperage of the motor , not the stall amperage which is probably 300 amps or so..for example, run a 250 watt unite on 30 amp controller., 0-12 in 5 seconds. now run an industrial on the same controller and test it (i did obviously) and zero to 12 is still 5 seconds.. the reason is the industrial although capable of pulling 600 amps perhaps is starved by the lousy 30 amps
#26948
robnewyork wrote:the fact is even a single 800 watt will pull the yk43b 196amps.

...

the reason is the industrial although capable of pulling 600 amps perhaps is starved by the lousy 30 amps
that is another problem i see with dual motors. either its going to be hooked up to a high amp controller which is going to require alot of battery capacity, or its going to be fed by a cheapo 30a controller so both motors are underpowered.

at 28a nominal i can run that brushless motor off smaller SLAs or low C rated lipos. i've ridden a 36v 500w MY1020 on 48v SLA and 44.4v lipo, range just flat out sucks! cant imagine doubling up on a MY1020 in that situation, it'll set off the lipo alarms on the first run
#26951
Ok, to answer a few questions here, the top motor in my mock up is the motor at the beginning of this post, so doing a test ride by clamping everything up with some band clamps is a no-go at the moment as I only have 1 motor.

Yes it is the $61 ebay motor(s) that are 36V 800W.
These motors don't seem to have much resistance and spin pretty freely which is nice with a frozen freewheel clutch that is hardly seen any activity :cry:

For a controller, don't know if the YK43B would still be too much with 2 motors but it killed one pretty quick.
My current controller is a 48V 1000W 30A YK33F that I am playing with a shunt mod. I currently am running 5 15AH batteries and a 40A fuse. This is not killing the 1 motor but don't think this motor will take much over the 28.5A it is rates for as it did smoke a tad bit after applying the shunt mod at 60V. (different motor then the one killed at the top of this thread)

So lets say this 1 controller is pushing 40A, that would be 20 per motor, still same total but less amperage push per motor.
At this level, would that really gain us anything (less strain per motor for longer life?)? On a 60A controller that would be a different story I think with more torque, same flat to downhill top speed, but better hill climbing, or that my theory ;)

Another option is to run 2 identical controllers, Y connect the battery power to both, one controller per motor & jumper the throttle controllers between both (throttle connected to 1 controller & add jumper wires from the connector in to the other controller) Not as simple as 1 controller, but one & done with the setup unless the controllers are very out of sync.

3rd option is a larger (60A) controller. Not sure the YK43B is small enough for that.

Zen_Racer, the motor / controller you linked does look like a nice single motor option. With the higher RPMs my son would love that for a high top end even with a 96T rear end.
(Don't know enough if that motor / controller would take 60V or if that something not needed if the power output is close to 2x of the motor(s) I am currently playing with.) Any feedback you can supply about this motor would really be appreciated.

As far as fabrication, that may not take more then a few hours when I actually get to it, being the motors together or low / high as I pictured (if we end up going that way) and is a one & done kind of thing. The added weight is always an issue with extra batteries / motors and such.

As SLA's are still more in my price range then Lipo type battery setups, stuck with shorter run time with more weight.
If that brush-less motor setup is a lot better and similar in power (understand that they are more efficient so more run time), that may be a better way to go in the long run.

Part of the end goal with this project is better overall performance of speed & power so next time we are at the track with our neighbors he will better be able to keep up and have more fun without going gas (not something mom want to go for but I am sure he would be all :mrgreen: if I got him a TaoTao DB-14 or 17
#26953
this was all assuming he ran the yk43b.. given the huge amp draw of a larger controller like the kellys or curtis or alltrax lipos from rc wouldnt like it anyway..ive never lived somewhere where range was an issue.. it was always go as fast as possible. if i were building a commuter my entire build philosophy would be the exact opposite.id run 30 amps to a brushless hub and have a top speed of perhaps 20mph.. and a primary focus would be range and weatherproofing.. if i were him id test the dual motor since he has them already, and i doubt hes going far on an mx, cops will nail u fast lol,.
#26954
65 bux get the ohio .5 industrial on for sale section!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!, puts an 800 unite to shame in all aspects and will mount to that top beam u micked up. thered be no gain in running 2 motors on 40amp, atleast not in 800 watt unites.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ohio-Motor-24-v ... 96?vxp=mtr

cheap as dirt and internally cooled, all u need is a sprocket from surplus center.
#26958
HubbaBubbaDenCo wrote:Zen_Racer, the motor / controller you linked does look like a nice single motor option. With the higher RPMs my son would love that for a high top end even with a 96T rear end.
(Don't know enough if that motor / controller would take 60V or if that something not needed if the power output is close to 2x of the motor(s) I am currently playing with.) Any feedback you can supply about this motor would really be appreciated.
Hubba the motors i linked are rated for 48v but there is a 60v version out there if you're looking for higher voltages:

http://www.hyperpowersports.com/product ... motor.html

i know for sure that the 48v version is the same size as the 500/650/800w MY1020, havent checked the specs for 60v. i didnt mention it but yes for my MX650 build i would be switch over to 8mm sprocket and chain. thicker chain to handle load increase and i can find 72/9t gears which will give more torque than the stock 80/11t without having to buy a rebel sprocket. 96/11t is begging for higher RPMs...
#26971
zen_racer wrote:
HubbaBubbaDenCo wrote:Zen_Racer, the motor / controller you linked does look like a nice single motor option. With the higher RPMs my son would love that for a high top end even with a 96T rear end.
(Don't know enough if that motor / controller would take 60V or if that something not needed if the power output is close to 2x of the motor(s) I am currently playing with.) Any feedback you can supply about this motor would really be appreciated.
Hubba the motors i linked are rated for 48v but there is a 60v version out there if you're looking for higher voltages:

http://www.hyperpowersports.com/product ... motor.html

i know for sure that the 48v version is the same size as the 500/650/800w MY1020, havent checked the specs for 60v. i didnt mention it but yes for my MX650 build i would be switch over to 8mm sprocket and chain. thicker chain to handle load increase and i can find 72/9t gears which will give more torque than the stock 80/11t without having to buy a rebel sprocket. 96/11t is begging for higher RPMs...
I did see they have a 60V for $120 and rated 2000 wattage. (hypersports don't seem to have any specs listed on their site). I don't know if these brush-less motors are as tolerant of being over volted as the Unites are and does that gain any advantage over stock. If that motor already peaks at 5600 rpms at 48V, what would it do at 60 and how is that motors power output compared?

So far I have done absolutely nothing with a dual motor yet, my mock up has been with the angle bar stock sitting on a spacer on top of the tire & the burnt motor on top of that checking to see if the chain would flow. the 96t rebel has not been tried yet either.

If a 48V (or even 60) setup single motor is better for this bike & provides better results then what I currently have with the 60V on the 1 36V 800W unite, I am all for that. robnewyork, thanks for the link for the Ohio motor, not sure if I want to go that route, something else to think about though.

Lots of stuff to consider :D Probably be another week or 2 before I can even try any of this so plenty of time to over think it :lol:
#26974
zen_racer wrote: i'll post up my MX650 w brushless motor build... same size as the stock motor so it'll drop right into the frame, 5600rpm @ 48v which spins faster than any overvolted Unite, and rated for 28a so it's sipping juice instead of chugging it...

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/48V-1500 ... 408dbc4bca
Can't wait to read about this once its done! Wish I new more about this motor/website before spending the cash on the 24v 500w motor I went with!

Hubba, what's your end goal?
#26976
HubbaBubbaDenCo wrote:I did see they have a 60V for $120 and rated 2000 wattage. (hypersports don't seem to have any specs listed on their site). I don't know if these brush-less motors are as tolerant of being over volted as the Unites are and does that gain any advantage over stock.
the main reason for overvolting the Unites is to get the higher RPM. another effect of overvolting is heat, which leads to a shortenened motor lifespan.

the 48v 1500w brushless motor is already rated for 5600RPM, so i dont see a need to overvolt? i see someone here has a 36v 800w MY1020 overvolted to 60v. doing the math that's 4666RPM and since its a less efficient motor it is pulling more amps to spin nearly a 1000RPM slower.

on my PR200 build i will be running a 24v hi-kol brushless at 36v because there are quite a few posts on endless-sphere using that motor on higher voltages.

there arent too many builds or posts with these BOMA brushless motors being overvolted so i dont want to sacrifice my build to find out lol. would be very satisfying getting 5600RPM at 48v and if i need more speed/torque i'll change out sprockets.
#26979
Zen_Racer, as Hyper Racing is not displaying specs on the motors themselves, I was just looking at some of the scooters these are on.
For the Hyper Racing Gold that uses the 60V 2000w motor, it lists the RPMs at 4800 with this scooters top speed of 37 -40 with much smaller tires then the MX has.
(also agree that a larger front sprocket may be a good idea on the MX for better torque and this thing not reaching highway speeds)

On the 48V 1600W 10" wheels scooter it is listing the rpms at 4800 with a tops speed of 35mph.

I do see on your Ali Express link site does list the 48V 1500W at 5600rpms. (nothing like different specs on different sites for what looks to be the same thing.)

Frazzled, my end game is to get a bike that my son can pretty much keep up with our neighbors son at the dirt track if we go there again (they are the same age) with good speed & power. Also to try & put off getting a real motocross bike for him as that will get very $$$ as dad would need one too 8-) . (also I don't think my wife wants us to go that route)

For battery I am playing with making a swap of batteries in the field fairly easy and if I stick with 60V (or simplier if go down to 48) is to widen the fake motor about an inch so I can fit 3 12V 15AH batteries (2 side by side & 1 behind) and then 2 more on top of that with a spacer that won't melt from hot wires, all nice and snug instead of bouncing around & not using zip ties. Once I figure stuff out & make a decision good or bad, I'll keep updating this thread (on the motor stuff as it relates) and reading all of the good info & opinions & also update my project page for this MX650 as I actually start doing something.

The current setup prior to asking all of this is 60V on the 36V 800W motor through a 30A 48V 1000W controller. If things dry out before next weekend, may just undo the shunt mod so I don't over amp the motor & see how it goes at the track. The speed improvement over the 48V on the same motor / controller setup definitely put a :D on my son's face and :shock: on mine (what did I just do). He is a little over 100 and I am 240 so maybe need to quit making this my bike.
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